years, reporting on UFOs in the major media was taboo. Almost all reports
of UFOs were relegated to the tabloids. Yet the times they are a changin'.
Just this year, both Larry King and the late Peter Jennings did full-length
specials exploring the topic of UFOs, both of which ended up raising more
questions than providing answers. The following quote (along with some fascinating
links) is from the order
page for the Peter Jennings ABC special "UFO: Seeing is Believing."
if you report a UFO to the U.S. government, you will be informed that the
Air Force conducted a 22-year investigation which ended in 1969 and concluded
that UFOs are not a threat to national security and are of no scientific interest.
But as one of the world's leading theoretical physicists says, 'You simply
cannot dismiss the possibility that some of these UFO sightings are actually
sightings from some object created by a civilization perhaps millions of years
ahead of us in technology.'"
key excerpts from the July 6th Larry King Live special on CNN. A link is also
provided to the full transcript. Key statements are highlighted in bold. For
an abundance of reliable, verifiable information on UFOs, see our Information
Center at http://www.WantToKnow.info/ufoinformation.
You can also view the video which convinced me four years ago. Filmed at the
Press Club and featuring 22 military and government witnesses giving testimony
of their personal experiences with UFOs, this eye-opening program is available
free at http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=national+press+club+disclosure+project.
Let us not close our eyes to all that may be going on in the universe outside
of our world. You take care and have a great day!
With best wishes,
Fred Burks for WantToKnow.info
Former language interpreter
for Presidents Bush and Clinton
Full transcript of CNN Larry King special:
To order a video or DVD of the Peter Jennings ABC special "UFO: Seeing
LARRY KING LIVE
Discuss Possibility Of Existence Of UFOs
6, 2005 - 21:00 ET (Slightly edited for reading ease)
CNN HOST: Tonight, are UFOs real or fake? Have they actually been here?
Some say the truth is out there. Others say there is no proof at all. Now
we'll go inside some 60 years worth of sensational, controversial reports
about people who say they saw UFOs, and those who even claim they were abducted
by them. Investigators on both sides of the UFO question will take your
our panel in what should be an extraordinary hour. In Denver, is John Schuessler,
former engineer for Boeing and NASA who has worked with pilots and astronauts
who claim to have seen UFOs. He's director of the Mutual UFO Network and author
of a book documenting a disturbing Texas UFO siting. In Boston is Dr. Susan
Clancy, skeptical author of an upcoming book, "Abducted" about people
who claim to have been abducted by aliens. She says memories are not always
factual or reliable. Here in Los Angeles is Seth Shostak. He is senior astronomer
for the SETI Institute -The Search for Extra-Terrestrial intelligence. In
New York is Budd Hopkins, a top researcher into the UFO abduction phenomena,
author of "Sight Unseen, Science, UFO Invisibility and Transgenic Beings."
In Washington is Rob Swiatek, long-time UFO investigator, researcher since
1968, and a board member of the Fund for UFO Research. And also in Washington
is Bruce Maccabee, active in UFO research since the late 1960s. He works with
the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, and serves on the
board of the Fund for UFO Research.
got you interested in this whole topic to begin with?
MUTUAL UFO NETWORK [http://www.mufon.com]:
I became interested in the mid '60s during the Gemini IV flight when astronaut
James McDivit said that he saw something in orbit. The ground controllers
kind of ignored him but he went ahead and took a picture. This was not anything
really classic, but as a young engineer it just inspired the heck out of me
because we'd worked night and day for several years to get Gemini IV up there.
After that I started talking to pilots and others who I thought were highly
credible people, good observers, capable individuals, and I've never stopped
Clancy, what aroused your interest?
I started studying aliens while a graduate student at Harvard. I was doing
research on how traumatic experiences impact memory functioning and alien
abductions was a type of traumatic experience people were reporting. It was
very interesting to me because, from the scientific perspective it was people
who had created a false memory. That's an interesting group to study.
KING: Seth, what is the SETI Institute?
SETI INSTITUTE [http://www.seti.org]: Well,
the SETI Institute is a non-profit research organization designed to investigate
the whole question of life beyond earth. And part of our project is to try
and prove that there is extraterrestrial - not only life, but intelligent
life out there by eavesdropping on signals.
KING: Budd Hopkins in New York, what got you interested?
HOPKINS, UFO ABDUCTION RESEARCHER: I was a complete skeptic. I had
no interest in the subject. [Then] I had a daytime UFO sighting in 1964. And
a few years later a man I knew quite well told me about a UFO landing that
he had observed. He saw figures who disembarked from the craft. Soil samples
were taken [from] the remains of the holes in the ground that were dug. This
was in New Jersey right across the Hudson River from Manhattan. I looked into
it and found a second witness who had seen the whole thing from another perspective
and found more physical evidence.
you're a longtime investigator. What got you involved?
SWIATEK, UFO INVESTIGATOR: Well, Larry, I was completely intrigued by
sightings of these strange objects back in the 1960s. I couldn't believe that
seemingly unexplained craft were being seen in our skies and couldn't be explained.
Moreover, I was fascinated by the University of Colorado UFO study that was
then ongoing. This was basically an attempt by the Air Force to have the UFO
problem looked at scientifically. The whole thing just fascinated me, and
I've been fascinated from that day to this.
what got you involved in things up there?
MACCABEE, UFO RESEARCHER: Back in the '50s an '60s when there were lots
of sightings around, I knew about them but I didn't really do anything about
it until about the middle '60s when there were a lot of sightings in the United
States that resulted in the University of Colorado study that Bob Swiatek
just referred to. At that time I decided that if there was really something
there, [it was] in the interviews with the actual witnesses. So I went with
a group known then as Night Cap, and we interviewed some people that would
have various types of sightings, and it turned out they weren't nuts. So I
decided there might be really something going on. And I began historical research
and further case investigations. All of them concluded that there is really
something flying around.
we've got to have drawn sides here. In March of 1997 there were numerous reports
from people who claim to see mysterious lights over Phoenix, Arizona. In a
special on UFOs earlier this year, ABC's Peter Jennings explored it.
VIDEOTAPE) [see a six-minute video clip of this siting at http://www.thephoenixlights.net
and see this
CNN page for more on the Phoenix sitings and excellent links.]
JENNINGS, ABC ANCHOR (voice-over): There have been UFO sightings with hundreds,
even thousands of eyewitnesses. Phoenix, Arizona, March 13th, 1997.
MALE: There were some incredible sightings over Phoenix, called the Phoenix
Lights. And they occurred while I was doing my program. I took call after
call after call of people in Phoenix saying oh my God, what's flying over
At 8:30 p.m. that night hundreds of people reported seeing a mysterious flying
the way, a skeptic interviewed for that ABC special claimed the lights were
merely flares and aircraft flying in formation, and people were just connecting
dots. John, that's a classic example of so many things we've seen and heard
through the years. What do you believe?
I believe there are actual unconventional flying objects in our skies on a
regular basis. We at MUFON get over 300 calls a month of raw data. About 10
percent resulting in good sightings.
[order excellent Sci-Fi
network video "Out of the Blue" here]
MALE: The UFO phenomenon really took off, actually, in June of 1947 in
the State of Washington when a pilot by the name of Kenneth Arnold saw many
objects going in formation at a very, very high speed by Mount Rainier in
Washington. Arnold said that the nine silvery objects he'd seen looked like
saucers skipping over a pond. The next day, his story was front-page news,
and a new term entered the American lexicon -- flying saucer.
from a Sci-Fi network special aired recently on Roswell and UFOs [order this
excellent documentary at link immediately above]. Budd Hopkins, I know you're
a believer. But Seth just said there's no proof can be shown. Can you show
us tonight right now absolute proof that extraterrestrials came here?
The first thing I want to say is about a believer. There are two groups of
people looking into the subject. The true believers and the pragmatists. The
pragmatists believe when they hear a story of an abduction, for instance,
that either there's a mental problem or there's a hoax or that it really happened.
The true believers, and Susan Clancy would be certainly one of the true believers,
know in advance that this did not happen, that this is a false memory. And
she has said so in her writing. In other words, rather than investigating
she makes the assumption that these are simply impossible. The point is we
have to test each one and look into it.
KING: What do you believe? Do you believe that extraterrestrials have come
to the planet earth?
We don't know where they're from. The interesting thing is we know what they're
doing, what they look like, the marks they leave on the ground and on people,
and how they can be photographed. Yet we don't know where they come from,
what their ultimate goal is.
KING: No one can know that. Dr. Clancy, if I told you I saw one today or
I was abducted, you would definitely say that I was whacko?
I would never say you were whacko, Larry King. In fact, I don't think anybody
who sees aliens or thinks they have been abducted is necessarily whacko. In
fact, the research shows otherwise. In general, people who believe they've
been abducted are not suffering from any more psychopathology than the average
person. I would think that you actually thought you saw an alien. But I would
also know that what you think you saw is not necessarily what you actually
KING: How would you know that?
mean, human perceptual systems are frail. How would I know that? I wouldn't
know it for sure. I would think it was interesting, but until I saw some form
of objective evidence that it was extraterrestrial in nature, I wouldn't believe
Rob shows us some extraordinary pictures and the whole panel comments, in
1997 the U.S. Air Force issued a report declaring the Roswell case closed.
The Air Force said the so-called space aliens were military dummies used in
high altitude parachute drops. What do we make, Bruce Maccabee, of Roswell?
Well, I think something actually occurred which has not yet been explained.
I have not been convinced by what the Air Force claimed and, of course, what
I call the dummy drop theory of Roswell doesn't satisfy anyone. Even the skeptics
tended to laugh at that. I like to stick to the testimony of the original
witnesses which made claims about extreme characteristics of the materials
that were found and so on. My own opinion, however, has not been based
on Roswell, but on all the other types of sightings that I have investigated,
including photographic film and video cases.
do you think, Rob, that they go over strange places? They never land in Washington,
DC at noon while Congress is in session.
If we are indeed dealing with alien intelligence, we have absolutely no idea
what this alien intelligence - how it would act and what it would do. How
does any of us as a human being know how an alien race would think? Their
idea of contact might be to never approach main government buildings or land
at the mall. So I think it's just kind of ridiculous to discount the whole
phenomenon because they don't do what we as humans think they would do.
since this has been reported for ages, are we ever going to know Rob?
Yes, I think we will know, Larry. I think this problem is amenable by science.
But I'm not going to say we're dealing with ETs because I think that's one
step beyond where we are as researchers of this phenomenon. The first thing
we do is deal with the data such as it is. And if the data is that they never
land in public places and that they just have overflights of military bases
or airline pilots deal with these things and see them, then we have to investigate
those data. That's what science does. And unfortunately mainstream science
hasn't yet looked at the really good cases in the UFO subject that exist.
do pilots tell you, John?
Well, pilots tell us real good stuff. You have to stop and think. A pilot
is a highly credible, highly trained good observer that protects the lives
of millions of people a day. They say that things fly up to their aircraft.
They're quite often noticed on radar. They move around the aircraft in ways
that their own airplane can't do in very close proximity. [They are] not amorphous
lights in the sky, [but rather] structural, physical things that come right
up to them. They say this is bizarre. This is beyond belief.
has brought extraordinary photos. Rob, we'll put some up and talk about them.
First, this is McMinnville, Oregon.
Larry, McMinnville, Oregon, was a series of two UFO photographs. You are looking
at, I believe, photograph two there. That is photograph number one. These
photos have passed the muster over many years of study of many experts, including
Dr. Maccabee here. Now the thing I wanted to qualify about UFO photographs
is that in and of themselves they don't prove we're dealing with ETs. Any
photograph can be hoaxed. The good thing about photographs like McMinnville
is that all the obvious explanations of how the photographs might have been
hoaxed have been ruled out, i.e: a model suspended from the wires. It's certainly
not an unusual cloud. It's not something that the witnesses threw in front
of them like a Frisbee and photographed. Extensive research by private sector
scientists like Dr. Maccabee and by the University of Colorado study back
in the '60s couldn't explain these sightings.
KING: Susan, how do you react when you look at that?
think that could have been somebody throwing a disk in the sky and taking
a picture of it. [What] I find interesting about the pictures is they're flying
saucers. And I want to remind the viewers that flying saucers were supposedly
first seen by Kenneth Arnold in 1947, but if you actually look at the transcripts
of what he said he saw, he did not see flying saucers. He actually saw crescent-shaped
objects that moved like a saucer would, if you skipped it across the water.
The media got confused, reported that flying saucers were shown and it was
flying saucers ever since. The pictures are somebody trying to create the
illusion of flying saucers or somebody took a picture of some weird thing
in the sky [that] happened to look like a flying saucer. It's certainly not
evidence that there's something extraterrestrial in the sky.
KING: Budd Hopkins, to you what does it mean?
Well, it's just one more piece of evidence that supports the physical reality
of these objects. Here's the thing about the abduction phenomenon [as] it
connects with photographs like this. We have over and over again physical
marks on people's bodies that are somehow inflicted upon them when they're
abducted into craft. I've seen perhaps 100 what we call scoop marks. These
are like the one at the bottom -- the straight line cut on the woman's body.
I've seen dozens and dozens of these. The doctor the next day asked if she
had some kind of surgery. There's a scoop mark on the back of a leg. Here's
a scoop mark on the front of the leg. We have hundreds of these. On top of
that, when a UFO lands, it manages very often to bake the soil -- kills the
grass. The soil is baked to a kind of rock-like consistency. We have had these
rocklike things analyzed.
KING: What does all that say to you?
Well, this is a physical thing. The idea that this is sleep paralysis,
which is the big explanation du jour is as completely full of holes as Bush's
rationale for invading Iraq. The first thing about the sleep paralysis is
for the first 15 or 20 years of abduction research, not one single person
was in the bedroom asleep.
MALE (video clip): Here's a flying saucer in a rare close up portrait. But
this one is no mystery. Unlike its high-flying cousins, this saucer is created
in an army laboratory at Ft. Belvoir, Virginia. Physicist Noel Scott, who
discovered the effect, says it's the same phenomenon that has baffled scientists,
hexed radar screens and led pilots on costly wild saucer chases. A mass of
air under low pressure and electrically charged, as you see taking the shape
of a glowing saucer. It's the answer to the year's number one scientific mystery,
or is it?
look at some more pictures from Rob Squiretech's collection. What's this in
Santa Ana, Rob?
Well, I don't actually know what it is, Larry, but yes, it is one of a sequence
of four photographs that were taken of seemingly -- I'll put the words alleged
and seemingly before the word object each time I say it, a large metallic
disk that crossed the road in front of a highway inspector in 1965. He took
three photographs of the disk itself. And one photograph later on, of a smoke
ring that allegedly the disk left behind it when it departed. Again, these
photos have passed muster with investigators. They've ruled out the hand-throwing
model, which Susan seems so blithely to describe as the source of all of these
photographs. What is left is the puzzle and the enigma that we need to figure
out. The person who took these, Mr. Heflin, had a pretty unimpeachable character
and no strings were found from which this object was dangled from in his truck,
nor double exposure or anything like that.
KING: How do you respond, Seth, to what you see?
SHOSTAK: Well, look, one of the problems with these photos...
KING: Come on, it is pretty amazing.
SHOSTAK: Well, yes, but it could be, as Susan has suggested, just a hubcap
thrown up and somebody takes pictures. There saying that's not...
KING: Don't look like a hubcap.
It doesn't look like a hubcap, but the point is that there's no point of reference.
You don't know how far away that thing is. It could be an aircraft that's
very far away and only looks like it's up close. You need, you know, you need
a couple of cameras.
look like an aircraft.
There's something in the sky there. To say that it's alien craft, that's a
Carter's reported seeing things.
SHOSTAK: It was Venus. He's an unimpeachable source and it was actually extraterrestrial,
but it was Venus.
Maccabee, what do you believe about these photos?
Well, these photos have been studied for many, many years, since the time
they were taken in '65, I think it was. And they have, as Bob pointed out,
passed muster over and over and over again. Nobody ever managed to prove that
[the photographer] would be a person likely to make any sort of hoax. These
things are either the real thing or a hoax. I mean, it's really an unexplained
object or hoax. There's no halfway point. In my opinion, having studied what
these other people have done and my own investigation of the photos themselves
indicate that this is a real object, and there is a possibility of estimating,
let's say, distance and size based on the atmospheric effects on the photo
-- on the object itself, indicating how bright it is as a function of distance.
It's a bit technical, but it does suggest that the object was probably within
a few thousand feet of the camera.
CLIP) WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS": What was in
the skies over Mexico in March? Members of the Mexican Air Force think they
could be UFOs. Pilots taped 11 unidentified flying objects over southern parts
of the country near the Gulf of Mexico. Only three of the objects showed up
on RADAR and members of the plane's crew say it seemed as if the bright lights
were responding to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
was a Wolf Blitzer report on CNN. John, what do you make of it?
Well, that was an excellent report. And it kind of thrilled us all, because
we had an air interdiction aircraft that had forward looking infrared radar
that was picking up heat images of something. And the analysis of that has
stood the test of time. Again, Dr. Maccabee has done a through analysis, and
one of the objects was obviously what we consider an unconventional flying
object. Some of the others were something else.
Maccabee, what are we looking at?
Well, after doing an extensive study of the videotape that I was sent by the
Mexican Air Force, I concluded that some of these objects were actually lights,
most likely to be lights on the ground. But on the other hand, this whole
event started when the surveillance aircraft flying over the Yucatan peninsula
picked up a radar target that got within two miles, and tracked it, followed
it for ten miles, and was not able to see anything associated with the radar
target, either visually or with the forward-looking infrared. And that by
itself is unusual. I would consider that to be what we call a radar unidentified
flying object, because it was a radar target. These other lights that you
see, some of them are probably lights on the ground. There may be some UFO
lights mixed in. But until the Mexican Air Force actually does some experiments
that I recommended, we wouldn't be able to tell for certain.
why would the government hide the information from the public if they had
Larry, if all a person could say is, my fellow Americans, they are here. They
can outfly anything we have. They're abducting our men, women and children
in an ongoing series of experiments. We don't know anything about it. We don't
know whether they are going to be friendly or not. We have no idea what this
is leading to. There's nothing we can do about it. Now, I always said I would
rather be in the liquor business at that point, than the stock market. But
the most important point here, Larry, is that [in a] conversation I had
years ago with the late Carl Sagan, we agreed that the UFO phenomenon was
an extraordinary phenomenon.
Well, what did Carl say?
We agreed that all of this together constitutes an extraordinary phenomenon.
What I said to Dr. Sagan was: shouldn't we be saying an extraordinary phenomenon
demands an extraordinary investigation? We're not getting an investigation
here. We're getting, unfortunately, lots of arm chair theorists who sit away
from the investigation process, who have actually never really gone out to
examine the site, the physical marks, or to do any medical work.
I will confirm that, because I interviewed the late Dr. Sagan many times,
and he was open to the possibility and to more investigation of it. Budd
Hopkins, do you think we're going to ever have proof in our lifetime?
Well, I never use the word proof. I use the term evidence. We have so much
evidence that we can hardly handle it. We have to remember that in terms of
proof that there's still something like 10 or 15 percent of the American public
do not believe that the Holocaust occurred. It has not been proved to them.
So, my point is, the evidence is so extensive and so complex. I've been doing
this for 30 years, and I'm talking about the medical evidence, and even though
Susan just mentioned sleep paralysis, we have hundreds and hundreds of abduction
cases where's people are driving cars. I was just dealing with a police sergeant
who was abducted. His family, seven people, saw the craft coming at rooftop
height in the middle of the afternoon over their picnic. And he was been abducted
don't they ever abduct Colin Powell. You know, abduct Seth Shostak. Why don't
they take you? You come back on this show. If they took you, we're going to
believe it. We thank John Schuessler, Dr. Susan Clancy, Seth Shostak, Budd
Hopkins, Rob Swiatek and Bruce Maccabee.
A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE THE SECURE ONLINE
ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
For a PBS
Nova interview with Budd Hopkins: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/aliens/buddhopkins.html
For the best Budd Hopkins cases on PBS: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/aliens/cases.html
For an abundance of reliable, verifiable information on UFOs: http://www.WantToKnow.info/ufoinformation.