29 December 1955 'Z NE'1,40RMUM FO',i-. TBE PECORD SUBJECT: Visit with Dr. Isbell at Lexingto-,i., Kentuci@.-,r 1. one purpose of this visit was to introduce to Dr. Isbell and!to get the-benefit of Dr. Isbell.rs 2 knowledge and experience in the alcohol problem. This was done and will be covered by P (@)(9.ls report. 2. In the antidote work on LSD, Dr. Isbell redorted that he had conducted several =re tests with Frenq@wl under "4h; supervision of Dr. Fabking and under true double blind conditions. He said that although he d2oes not yet have the dose key back from Y-,errill and Co., none of the doses produced effects vhichvou"-dlead him to believe any antidote effect had been found.. He said also that so -Lar the partial blocking effect of chlorpromazine is the only clue in this field. 3. NIH still'is pursuing the work on bufotero-ne and after working up to I gram 2of Cohoba Snuff with .no effects in the men but sneezipg, Dr. Isbell reports that he has gotten up to ni-iite@'.aigh doses of bufotenine I.V. ,with no results as, yet. He said th--t F ing told him that he had worked up to doses of ittthat caused the men to turn blue in the face at i;hich point a short-li-ied psych2otid episode was precipitated. In addition to this work, NIE has sent Dr.' Isbell a quantity of Rivea seeds for tea-,"ling in his men. These came from Dr. Kety,, who described the e-.'LL@ects 'k..%at were obtained by Dr. Cochin of ZEE using a hot 1-,N -HC1 extract of the seeds in 2 animal tests on r4t6 , pigeons, and dogs-'. The chief reactions see--ed to be sedation ,with catatonia and azi@a:loesia without producing sleep, dila- tation of pupils, and anorexia. There-seemed to be a @ride r.%-rgin bet-ween effecti-%,e andl@athal :iose 2and effects were obtained with -=ounts o-r the order of 50 seeds per dog indicating a relatively high potency. I described our progress in this field to Dr. Isbell and he agreed to give us the results of his tests and to test the gluco-al-laaloid which was obtained from Rivea by Dr. Cook when it has been run on anirlals. 4. In connect2ion with small ani=l testing, Dr. Isbell said that@, he felt that the hallaci.-.ato.-y drugs could certainly 'ce screened in such a way. He pointed out t',_.at the psychologists at the hospital had zrccluced =phetamize hallucinations in their conditioned rats such that -L6,he rats -push an im-agin2ea-,@ bar in the SK@,ier box and-eat im. inary foc. . Also vould- ag "IC felt that the 1-ss of wildness and bit . -e ina - fle- in-ra'%"a monl-,eys, e4,- a2s veli as other indica-4ions, suggested by Dr. Felikan were valid. indicators of haliucina'or-I acl@, i, -; i4.'I' . 5. 1 asked Dr. Isbell about the use of 1-dromeran as an alcohol extender and he agreed that this should be ef@0ective and cuite safe. Cre noted that Ho2ofrzn La Pochp- has a le-w de:-ivati,.,e which is 3 times as poten-@.- as 1-d..-cm3r= and should also be o.-al:-,7 He agreed to test this. We also discussed the use of this mp-%"eri-c-I reserpine and scopola:nine in conjunction with cliloral in the K material. He reco=aendea @,hat I s'@-.az-t so=e animal work on such materials Clasa"f '4d Vate 2 that reserptt,.e should potentiate chloral and alcohol as well as baroit'lurates and that the poluentia'L-lion might be in duration and/or'depth of sleep. rl -i-ta T Cn Lrm"l:- %i-t 1 1'hom A .--"rt c- the rese--Pi-- _IVEtila'nlft c There appears to be a potentiation of the LSD@effect such that in so"-,e -iven in 3 - 2 rZ.- portions I.M. d,.irinsZ,; 24 hours cases 6 mg. reserpine g prepedin- 60-Ug@-i. LSD brou,!-ht2 on reactions usually seen at about 'the 150 Ugm- level of LSD. Dr. Isbell wants to de' -mine whe4,her or not the usual tolerance to LSD can be ,voided by combination with reserpine before. he.-finishes his study. 7. A number of other mat'L-lers were disposed of during the meeting. These included the ordering of arother gram of LSD, 2 plans to test the Lilly m--,terial as soon as Dr. Pfeiffer has finished with it, and plans to check suspected va--iations in T)o"6.ei@cy of various'batches of Sandoz LSD. 8. Finall.,f., I gave D-r. Isbell a briefing on our relationship and projected plans As-a-vis Dr. Baldwin and asked him for his oninion on this approach to our mroblems sugges'o-.in,7 at the same time that he might wish to talk- to Dr. Wikler about it. He agreed that Dr. Wi':;.ler would be able to give us som-ft sound help in arriving at a decision and indicated that his oa-a first feeling about the program was that it would be of value 2 to us in many va,-f:C-,remem@,ering at the same time that it would be a la.-Se and costly undertaking rhich.no doub@L6, ,,rould have to run for an exten,-4ed period in time. He also felt that IfI7. should be willing to bear considerable of the cost though.. 9 TSSld6 mical Division. Distribution: Oris & I TSS/CD t)ec raspified b-y