File 3 December 1951 P4 Conference "Artichoke". 30 November 1951 !ove.,nb-,r 19 nferencn relative n 1. On 30 co Articlio d i 2 the offi Present. in addition w-ire writer, A acting as co-ordinator for the "Artichoke' work presented 04 the agenda. Details follow in substance. 2. First, the diV the Ilroject of ttie@ "iide-tone dolqy". statod t %I 0 I's point of view A was one in which they ou e Agency support for tile ject sinc Pro i.@@ %gmwwomu@ d be a reat help for th2em in tlicir liaisonoworP'w'l@l-i A tile stated that the very strongly wanted the po,'oT,,,.-t continued, but@they did not have oney to continue. They felt that the "side-tone delay' project was one In which this Agency could well 2invest the necessary $35,0(0- 3. tited that @is did not tile proioct sias -.iorth CIO 0 su-,,,nort the F)roi-3ct if it, wo!jlcl hclp O'l. Alq st,,ite(i that lie felt tiq2t thiq T3roJert coiild h uch if the Agir.-cy had had its own lat@;oratory. stated that he did not think this would be worth $35,,000 and dout-,ted if it would be of nny use to "Artichoke", but stated t h! qoald support e 0- ject particularly If it would he1r) 05.11 .I@" ison work. t, ' 37 lia stated that he felt that all things consi?erW?d, it was worth-.-T,171"16 t@o support the project. t was, therefore, qgr,3ed that this conferenc,3 woiild support the TIroiect,.t.,ut that 'refore'the actual contract wa,,3 written, cer- tiin Fritarintef?s would have to I-e made protectinfr u intirent.s in the-. 2 u t lie El matter ilthoiE,,Ii ih-i proj,?ct would l@e r@in 1-@ tile Agerc-y's disclosed. In this connection, It wAs agreed that iiaii6to I 2 all( any otlinr pirties Interested would got to- work on the project when it reached thq contrnot stage to nAke siire oiir interints wers proticted and any -,qpeciAl' itnt-,is cov(,,rod. stitell w2ork At on (IruC,.,s find -t,licir In cllnical work at an diia an expect(,d to receiveii,@D tti future. lie stated that tti has in- formed the- hat they will co"r the fiel drugs and 2 Agencies reports in this connection. Com- ted tha had told him this aLnA.-he. these nee would be forth coming- 3101.1e@.dcul-@ts Ps to wtiither or not w(i would rnceive any reports since zio reports al,)iig the-3e lines ha(l lnen receimd to date. c stated th report 11 a Bill _204 d him f 'I pc L) h;; e n or @.@ e- @f@ ITa@w i day, er). his po -- ee n At t in stated that lie wanted to i-,ioress upon all those present the extrehe cost of good research at the present time. fl,3 stated that a f,,ood tnchzijc-,il i-esi?arcfl proje?ct cost at the ral.p of @'v@20,0(0 n ye.:ir for evr?ry one iiicl one-half professionally-+-- lped researchers. ;4ence, tie felt tt2i-it the .'35:,O(( set out -ahovg for the Project was probably not excpssivp. 7. IF then asked whether any re- search'had been conducted or any attempts hAd been made to find odt if work was 'being done on ul2tra-sonic5. Ile st-ited that lie had read scmp_ papers recently on,.-io;"2.2inp and ultra-sonic 1--eamizig wliieh indic--ited unur,unl reiults. that he would nak-3 all neces- statr-,d 2 sary inquiries in tj-iis connection. Th,-, disc,,tssion at this point wis turned to de'@lectio,-i of dece tie devices, particularly@the "squep.ler" device and its possil-le usti an A 1#40]1* .4stated he would make notes on this matter and see if he could fi 2 out any informrtion. 'A 9. stated that he had cen in psrsonal c@ toiich wit'i and stated t is doing r.qost of his we is 1--eing paici through t';@-m and 2 to date his work has teen a a traig!it NW proje dnclass@ific-d ami a orne of his discoveries have t.,een significant aloag "Artichoke" lines. -*Alp has dotm work particularly in the'17sergic acid grouns and he feels a information would be of extrame,lralue 2 to this Agency. hat he was setting uD the o obtain A t t CA ull details of t@ii3 work. stated that the of the4Wwas a friend of hiswa-n-'dw@if necessary., lie could talk p!rs 7aL_l@a7 referred to abovet is "Mf the imaiwid@sin-outstanding authority on ane3thesioloq 2 y and driigs in tiip- (!nited States. A 1(. rstqt@e(i thit the infoz--iation tli-it he wa,,3 oL-- tilni fr tie Cliemical ',Iirfire Tranc!i of tiie ilrn-j 2WI..OF licinp,, obtained C- from nnd this was proving hilphly successftil. /4 11 -t:ited that tie hn(I been in contact wit4m&,.-9 a fiilly cleared Ai,ency consultant, as3 considerine, plans for usin new te ?n s of interest to t.0 ch could be applied in th He -2- was nlso studying bow ien caild 1,c traiy)el for Are-,icy ur-.e within the ra;ftj.- fications of ti-ie WAVW Accordin 'he felt that a possible use could l,e made 'ov, I=- i@c@r the train2ing of men in the use of drugs. 12@ stated that of tli nd a special."L'st in el was present in"f3* ICU agreed to arran;.,,e _@@, _@ neetirg after thia conference for t2hose who wiglied to talk to* ',,-,MWRNNPJM relative possitle use of electric shock or similir devic6s in connection -.4ith 'llrtichokell work. 13. At thin aoint in the conference, the idea of setting U a lab- oratory for certain dork in the Agency was discu3sed2. /4 suggested that they contemplatpoa latoratory Involving about four rooms A and using six men who would be professional that @iad di sc@ts-sed. l,hi:3 !-,atter informally wit A stated, 2at this point, that whereas fie th'oup, c ea wa ro- sound, hi-, ff3lt a gr,2@it i-,-Any of t)ie drtaili -ihould be discussed t@e- fore coi)sidqration be riv@-n the Dro.ject. 'le statpci tliRL he recently had been a@@le2 to interest ihe tied-Lca'l Departmn-,it of the Agency in the 'Arti- chokoll work and he felt that if a,laboratory was to I-,e set up, the Medical Department should understand the type of work done there, stated the position that the use of Agency psrsonnel in drug experimentation of any type would have to i-e considered with a great deal of caution and @ia tion3 would have to'l-c overcome before this @ould be done. ny also stated that heretofore the i'-Iedical Department of the AF .,ency liad not ,stio-,.qn any inte2r-3;3t lr. P,;,rency work alon@', the "Artichok lines or other related lixins biil they @istvi 7-ecent4 core aro,,lnd to a po- -port for this type of work. stated that, in sition of real su. his opinion, the laborato2ry sholild be a much broader type of laboratory and not purely a medical laboratory. 1)1. At tlii3 point,, the -laestion of whethe who was for-,nerly In Asiessment now rT?.) would do an a co-ordinator In the "Arti- Clio It of wor@:. 2 tated ttiit )ie .iotild definital di-i A y @gjjove of not ti Liril rp@pmm connectloii g his type of work and did was suit2itle for it. stite o4 d tltat had @-etn very highl ag4 in out-st.-inding Riiycliiatri3t In the country, but that had been infome(i that It would 1-@e imr2)ossitle to obtqin the sp-r- sincn he was extrnr4ely 'rugy. qrrpin 1,-rouglit ii;-i '-he itil ject of the 'Vial" -ind thr- I tt th @pet)-ple were com,)letiiig 7their ti3Ls on ttie in- slr-ument and final results. ,iho,,tld be known in :;)@olit 1-,i. that the Information now con@ing fr indicated that nstrument was of vastly more inta-rest than originaily thought and 4z A-) o 0 0 tt 4-V It o H 2 @4 43 1-4 tcl.)' .S., 6) 4-i :S to 0 0 u cc > c: 0 c 2 b-I 0) r; co 0) -II! 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