12 July 1955 .@,eport and Otlier Interviews, April 1955 J.o tlio ,4riter's i@rrort of Itis trip to tlio -kilo ..... 0%@ ..4 a and corc otlinr interviews 2RI-ong -ed for certain relalod linco. Delivery of rell,ort to you was delay reasoiis beariri,-, on security matters. 2. If you wish a copy of this report for your files let the writer Iciow tind copy will be sent at once. flawaver2, it io requested that this origiiial be mturnod after your study. If you wioli further doveloprvnts of any infornatioxi cori- tained harain) please inforni tlxo writer. 4. Ilor yotir itiforiTi,,itioii, e@xploitatioii of the variousillwffers 2 has not been inplerwnted to date owing to davelaprent of other riatters of wlii.ch you are cofnizarit. In this coiinection the writer would.'lika 'to discusi3 such possible future exploitation with you at your con- venience. @A GL, talia L Between 6 April a.,id 11 April 1955, the writer visited cortaj-ii-cleared coiitacto at tl)p, alid 8 AprJ.l tall,-cdt 9 April); iii,,2 L .50 consultant at 0 April and talked 7T U April' Details f oUm-T Ori tlio afterzioon atid in the evc,@nitig of April, the writer ali ef, 00,Gontact f-)ffice, 2 sed the and the personalities sclieduled for conferences the followinf., day. id the writer lef about 8:00 A?4, 7 April and arrived a compaiv car a at approxJ.Yrt-,,ltely 9:)i5 Af-1. Ghortly after --rrivall cortrerences i)-oran. At, tli(3 first coziferrt,,co, iii ad Li-on t rfritar, there wore preoent, and the of th e id ollowitic, pro-arranged plans) the @;riter after giviii,. II ecurity briefings,(21 2 WORK @,,outlined in g6neral -Lerms the Alt'rlClIOKE work aiid matterE3 of related intcreL,3t. 'niis colif erence labted approyirate).y two 'hours. After luncti, ttie sami-, br'Lefizil,, was re- pealod wit2)t the al>ove-inentioneid group I)lus ormer PI.c3eD.L. Pi TliJ.s cotif.(,reiice, questiotis, tlirne lioi.tro. 1--ate'r that -iftcx,i)o(-,ii at, t)ic liorc.,0 t)ic writer continued the discussioiis for several alidi@ional licurs. on a-III 1.1!(Y) ?01-(! :.*IC !,I over LLe plit.;ical or Llic nrw@ cliidi-rig detallod to braric ol 2 0 J, room, labor,-itoricts, ccc-,, 1-1. ty !3 y 3 I r,W- C. -r- proso:,@,. ','ol.).c-4i iii, litncli, ti,,O -aiiti tiic ijri.to 14 irriwr @.ad so7oral rJ,.oi-t b-v-Uvi(.hu-Ll 'iWk C- 2 CA w, At tf','IY -lin in-iter I.e.Ct tvioAiMMMOMA :30 f', t and returmd t k -Di-ring Ule ttio-df-.&-Y visit,2O at ic iiriter i;aaal)"Le to lrtroduce for dincuseiioii niii7)jf-,c,.tf3 cf to an.,-I o@licr proti-a--@,g cf in'v-crost 10 ,!era iU LLiu-,i L2itff-icientl.y to iir;. iliese dis(,,jt3cloiir,, - atly irr,-l iii poinled to cl)tttiri so,@v v,:,cciflc aiiviors or (,pisdcns. 'ot utit rm,, siate. in mtt)stcuice co2ncr,,rniri@,- vario,lis ilet-s (Ilsaucc^-dt r I MIO jr,rlitu@s iritli ttiti ;-co4@ for (-,iu- i.r, 2 r:@- Ll.,o pri,.r -,r- r -st iL I!itt r).U rol of the 6 -t?s for 0..Il, occri it in IT Tril.r@! III An ergot derivativo nnd T)035il)ln t of Lsi)) -oil -II IF rw,- l@AU@,'OLF'lA 13ot onoider tiiis a very lnterezitijig cliamical. Ttiey do ziot believe it wouid be valuable by itmLC for our use but feel Uiat it w 2 0,Ud be extromly iiitei-osbiii(; @iorkrd Jri conl)iriitlon vri.L)i ot-lier clieidca-13. [).-xti,-ulLn-rly tliin!(s I,, stioiLl.,,]. I)a tiried uld possibly also 2 J.n c=biriation ititli LSI). @ated tlial @hore was iliteresi.ijig n-tteri.-il in ljcjorig I oboo)-, on this clicirdcal tutl fie tlioti(;Jit Lli(, p,-,ycliogr-rii c ef "ectr, L@c i.ritrrtutinf-2, Ti altliougli he liad not tiorked with It* -ad t I i,-j tfrenTLil (tlie 1-!apv,-,i J.roripr c.C lit-ratran), It rtlU,(,csL 2-in I' ratran. prodtict, would perliai)s be more effective and :Lntercstirit,, Lli, e They surgested study also aloni-, tlicse lines. alt@qtgd tliab iii Iii sprofessional opirliony Llolitrone is hiclily useful for its analt,ooic effect. 2fie, stated that obviously t.liere wi s a psycliorcnic -.tit unn of t)to clionlicil L,,u-t of the tintitre of IiJ.s -ill.y --ilonfr 11'7.' tiif.1 )lot itol-I2ct,fl @titil At o,,.I)rrJ,mrtiU, Iiricq. )In alqo in(-.Iicab(,,(l lie fclt Lliit jurit,@i.iiF,, I-,y Llic liiiiiclrfiri cises lie lia(l @iorl(.ccl witli, it mi[,,Iit liava tiii amcq2ir@, o.Crect all botli stated that it was important and sliould receive much consicration. A tatod the clitndcal clioul.d be extremely v@-Lluable for'tlic, Al;(,ney and riieii t!iis exat,rile: AF;rcttp of )iis 0 @i,-,rc- rol,ili-diousilic, in C(Jlltlt,ry (loci ol' oiic a.C t@lia, lockcr ro(iris c back taid neck in mdli -a way that he could noL 6traioiten ups every, mo-vement rou,r,rlit him back to t2lr-, d gave him beirg very painful. of I)oli @rotic int ;ms a rJ., 'ili ilir tjlis btittocit a)id wi.tlitn r 10 cc. doctor rta3 alle to stra@ 2 up, trov(, al)ollb cvciiwinj, a golf club @Lnd felt tio pai.n. (i he (Lid not clieck out how long the canditioh lasted IzBWd at lealst -sevcz-al hours and lie ste.ted it was the first but he knew it time Dolitroiia liad boon used in2tramisr.,,jlarly. felt that for people wtio liact to -jump fro-,n paracliutes and.in ljiia of duty be mibject, to pain, brolten legs, spra-Lis, etc-. and 'vilto had to perform a@,i assiC@imetiL iii a given iod of tirx3 this mifrl2it be an irportcuit d-Lsco-very. 'Ihe writer suggested per that this could be work-ed out using an auwmatic injector device an said iii -Iiin opij-d.oti it riefin.itely cotild. Ile stated lie would work.on the problem and I!ive it tlioial.@it since I-,e cl2(,,arly,recol,,-iii.7,ed it,s value to us. and ucd t)ial they woudl do sore work in the future on the Ile lolitro-ra. psychoronic and imesic ecfccts of 1, I.x 4.@l @@ @ sod us 2 -ion viitti otlier @g liesca]J-iia in combinat clicniicals. c stated it should be tried with Pauwolfia and ISD. lie salid h(, lisd done no experirpnts aloiify it it r2c4L-lit I>e lmportniit. Lliese. 3.iiies but tliouf-,l Doth ew of this rare atid )cnew tlin'u it liod bcc.,n studied in the U.S.S,R'. ctmitted that it was a powerful Euiesthetic fas but fe9lt its ccpetise an@ @;ay of arjjninistration riiilit preclude our ur-,o of it. loiwaid lie wciild r@ 1),ui(ferition ruid iiould also dJ.o- tlio Pzttor soi-.r co cuss the problem witli (not yet cleared). Tn, IT J AIII ftl!IL A LC,01 IOL 2 Ttic writer azlccd d f tlicy -@iere familiar witli it and said he didn't t)iink it i4as @iortli Dnytldiig aiid 'vias qtiite faiiiliar witli it* He stated a corpound kncrvm as IIH12" put out by Parke-Davis was far 2superior. (The ,;riter havc rdounderstood the term "IIY2" but silice iL is contenTlaLed furtlier v;ork witli these -,rp@ii tilis imtter will be, taketi up at that t.ir,.e. Pli-'RA.D[(OL Term Pr-ntioned but no cowients 2 nade. Appareiitly this coi7po=d may ble expf-,ritmntal wid lictice not yct ur-,cd clinically. Both doctors Were familiar irith Scratonin ariqoot des- particularly 2 ci-ibed it as very intorestinf,- but 1-ic liz)d jiot done tuiy work ,rith the material. stated'tliat lie would e,@,,anine wilat li(,, lia(l on @'-"ci-ataiiin and tlio.t at, li-.Lm! ai;,2iin. Ile ,3tated sowe futtlre date the matter sliould be tiken i)p wj.t,ii obv-lously it i-tas of great i.iiteror@t but lie t.L:Lcl not feel at the present tiyw it @tas worlhtdtile. for lilri to cort*-rit tipati i.to Ippl7icati.olis Irid rerults. 3 ated it wati no good from Iiis pcirsoii6l laiawle'dgc. Llotli mJe reforcnce to DFI"F by liii@ials. .es v,,ere hir ous Since ti-io cliBaussJ.ons at tip _@ily tocliriicil Lx--twee-n varl inclivi(luals prcc;eiit rLyl(.1 .-,ilice tj..r-ie 1-i,-d.tcrlj @lie tiritt-r cualci not Is tract3 oul. a@ti Lli eje vorinui c t- -m c ,i mcntiaiictl. I-ater ot the -eiriler asked 2 welih DFI'F was -,nd its use ea-id the 1955 EdiLioti of GDJDr.',kN kND (IIU.!AN,, reiarred tt-@e writet- to page 453. Botli id 0-re quite famill.Lr from a cliiiica.1 point of view wi2th Cocabie wid its derivai-lives4li od that re work coitl.d I)e profi.Lably done in this field. A"I,l A.'ii,,) tqted he was faniliar with this and realized U-iat it 2 would have psychor ect biit did not corrient at larg.,rtli on it. of f ALrl(lliof, Both ,-.d ree tl-ip-t Alcoliclj particularly in wliisky, i,-.bie, etc. Was ILitrllly importait to aiiy o2r..(,i,n.tioii3 of an Ai;oiicy of our @ilicy stif,:p 11,1, (,verytliiiia mcntioried ,,Iioul.(i .,ested that prac@-ica t)e worl@r,o lti 'roT-it)ij)@,itioli witli 2Alcohol iii(,t LliiL i-,I-ry'woiil.d iliomsclves I;ry com- iiould work as binatioris willi it aii(i would exwdne pos3ibla cliaucal.a tti.at potentiators for the effects of alcohol. ..5,j A('.'il IC ('i I LT I C, O,, 1, A(.TI15 lioth C36L A opraented that tliaoo peculiar cotnpowids often had interesting psycliogeiiie effects. They, stated tliat they had not i3ttidiorl it Irit doul)tcd it would liave P,.ticii use for iis. Tli-Is iias al, are2iibly p b'ared on tlin unuru.-tl. sion offr;,.cto @iliicii prol,.al.)ly viould not Iv usefiil and mi@,,Iit de-f initely be dangerous, t@-ite(I he t, 2 lioucht that Cliloral Ilytirate w@-as not, clood and in his use had never lcon -,uccessful. Ilmiever, lia clid not preclude work with it but did not like the subslance. I)Qliil 11 "lo olli. stated this viiis no f-,o2od. AliTI]IISTPI!IC L)P.UGS Both doctors recoguzod that theme drugs viould produce psycliogenic effects I;tit offered iio cou=nt. Oiie coi-Lfereiice harl h,-tr@3J.3, started bofoit' l@cd tlio2 @iriter .Lf Jic iiai@c iiitcroistoli iii roit;oii(,us rm,,ilti!ocili 11; j.'Itc writcr i.tiforiiied ilaro GI iicly i, ry careful now. vc 2 stiidy be riade of tiiis atid also of the litoraturp as it:a.ppcoxed bliat toxic mushrooris uere used as lntoxi=its in the Soviet Union. Ile felt it Something that lil,.d not I)e exploited and ou(,-,-csted study as to Llic cfl'ec'ug7 b3- A3)'TIZTI'4 vias a rimple way of Both doctors agreed that tlio ae;piriii tablet adminii3tration mid possibly aupirin combiiied iiith obher clieniicala jid2l;ht pro(l.uce iiitei-estitir,, rcstilts. llicy liad (1<-,ne tio ,-;oritc li-xics but ttiat pills coiild be mdo to ispiriii,tibloti3 and t]Lis was indeed a very copunon2 pill. TARIJUA?"A Intorestintr, I)ut did not aprear to I:-- l@t)rjd froin our point of vicii. Led i6s valite as a talk proclucer par-ticularly t3itice coiilrol C- 2 itatiozi with this conbixwd would be difficult. (;6-eiited expori m 40owg"u sorn atlier clap-.ents. -lwaxe, of courrc, fardLLar @iitli 2 aU types of DoctorsdIlWi@idit barbiturates. qmwias used Barbiturates in psychiatry to a [;reat ex- tent.. Uce of Darbiturates@ of course, as aii aiiestlietic is stcaiclarcl 2lid 8 Tn,-ide trei.-eiirloun contri.butioris iii Llic field of &-xbiturates, particularlr lits tntroclue-tion of codiw-n pentollial, The writer aslcad both mn if they wore rrmiliar willi aiiy nei; cliem-icals iii tiils fi-old tritli tu-ntsual2. wid c-,trajtie rettilts. Tll(, i;ritr@r v,,as lmfori-ieci there @tere rio porticti-lzrl.y t)c@i I.,arbitij-ratoo cii:Krpiltly bcilil,, studit-.(l ELtid ajiy liew 2 i-nfory,,.ibiori -iloiir, Uliese liiioe;,iii tl,,o ftiture itc)tilci t)e trniiot-d.(,ted to tlic, ed wit) -writer in tlio iirp, of cortaiii b,-Lrbi- writer. 9 i tlio turates.-coupled vritti certain stimulants iii narco-int4arv ows as being effective. lie has had considerable exparience aloiig tliin line. A(;,iiii bo.Lli doctors -rierc wp-li acquaiiiio(l w-illi lioriiii-lic and suctosted that fur-tlier exploration could be riide in U:3ijig 1!6rptLine in rombiiiution ti.o @,copolaTrELiia c3t)icl,r,. (";a vpeclal. ,,u!-,,,.-,cstioni The doctors ircre fan-il-.I.ar iTi-Lil the i-itj7e but ]la(] iiot trorj-,ed witli tliio cl i or,-Li cq C Of 2 II I AT ICri ""3 2 tated that lie felt tiiat special atlention sliould be dovoled to the of ',crpesil (R-iuirol.Cia) iiitli tl,.e relatively now cliepu- ca.1 Ile st;;tod @,o liad not a.c, -jet coiuiectioii but fel.t it n@i(Tjit be valuablc. I!e cillefl atloiition to an c editoral in the AIRIAI-Z OF IIITEIUIAJ, IMI)ICIIIFfen ttrticle on pgycliogenic cImCs. Ile sujl, .,Gsted it iiould be of interest. 2 7- tq t r @l tILit at .ias a piiarrvi- cOlOp7ist cl- cilct"LLzJf, @ll'Ol;c "Eurr, lie. c(@uld, iiot -,ilia iiib iziiif- ill s-Lit(L'II2.IIF7 of ILI), al-i(I liac,l. dcwlr@pod we..-Ii ovot- 10(l of tlicc;e f this n,@,ui I;o clenr(,fl itirl stated we ttiould clear or arrariC.,,c to 4coritac !:.,rfl to cr)illrol. lie stated tliaAojw(!vLlcpc(i Llie Lalued he thoucjit nomctliing coul(I be DOTIC with tl.,e iii,,,-r2jrtion of a plastic need2t- irito a pt-rsotiIE3 veiii-3 LiiiL etou.Id bo, in icicrl tylic of lo@lial vteapon for 'Elie writrr did iiot (lovelop this idaa silica alitra t As a2i3siu,cd in L)ie f,@iturn ..,Ln(i LI,13 fiel@ij @il tilo of C- :Lnterest, is riot particultirl,7 partitient. AD'@l:' Ilic ,rriter ttienlioiied A(Irctioclirom- iiirt relit2-ad rubst,,-.Lneco or, possibly pc;ycho(-ar-Lic agents. (;rect of (toctci,s pi,o,.7piiL lii@t licarri of tlir- tio-vitil@, iiono. cf tlicm li,.ict a cli,@uict', to --,cc it il3 actlial iiorl, althougli d worlccd @rit)t 2 In corlicction wif, the crigiiial @.ev,-,lopmf,,iit of it. In response to exact questions ccnceriiiiig neisilriii@, O@cA.@cs w!iicli woitld be of ilso to t)@c Po]-v,,rriph 2firincii, the it i writer was infoi-rrd t)ierr- were on t),.c stz;ff r,.C ti rjpvcral III(-iividl,.alo witor;(, wi.Li Le rnrritiotieci lil2or i-i)io liad (IOTI(-' very.P-d-, Jn tli(, it3(l of sciir,.iti.v(i, v, -icei @roi,k clnviccr@ Coi- 2 JocLoi- i.r, tiltirli nrr, or id@il-,tic)ii @,c, Lli@n oC blood ,).t,ccmire or l@loo(i flo@i it rii,-tiv points in the tio(ty. Tilis cliscuszioil 'w,-to not, rieveloi-,k-d be,catine t.lic refei,red to wera not cleared ir-@d i@v felt cxplo.T-,-ition alc)i)t,, tlijo I.J-iie ccul@i -,:al.t. l'or '.ICI-(' 110 iiril ii@iiltiitr@ or lie I'C.I.L W(",I.I,d be of ,L7'.t('rccL t-i Lio. sti-rgical techiiie-lites of 2 c,7trl-ylcr. lto,,,piLal-tvpc equipr.-ont and all Podern operatij-LC roorn ar@e extennively ecluipred but that Ll,,iis t,ti-'Pe of f,(Ittipriorit could c(,rta.ltil.,-f iiot 2b(! f,r,@airpoT-tcd into Pjiy cz-uc-a ai-(,,i at, kt!;cd urid(,.r @ield cutidJ.tion!3. I ri,'] IL@,@,J tince the writer and lind agread that the pro- (@irui2r)il nf 1"1-)r oi' .1110,..o. plienomc-rii iiotilci b(-, of coricir3@,rll)lv. iritercsl if tliv.- rc)itl(l l,r rpicoluicii .;,is -tit to t.)ics. doctors J-iiLcr- vic!xierl.. t)tey rot-,arrled ttic probleii as vrry tio an!3wcro were obtainablf-,. IC[,OSt(3d tli;@it should b-- clc,..qre@l a.iij iiiterview ad. staled tIt'-p. ad for rnqiiy ,31"litli.cd raid doiie i.ii ijrrlic;uni t@T(,,i -of aid lie prolatly 2 vioul(i 113vf- -,t ,ii@otiliL of rttto,,iil 31o!lf: tllcjo liiicc,. T I 0 (j'Y li,,vc @i to.,c-t- colofyist n.s s,icii I-,Iut, tlit-y do have c-liejtiiot3 aii(I pikirr,.acclof.,,isij;oii tlioir str.-ff wtio have doiie toxicolot,,i,cal viork wid their services would be r,-k-ide available at any tinn, a toxicolo,rical qtitcly @;z3a re(Tlired. TJie matter of the cozitrolj.od -rori@icti-oii of 11 or v--,iri.olis T)ains ttts discussc(l witli the el.oarad centacts tit L-ii is 2 i ,,:7 am@pf,,d t@)a@ cr,&,,qiii r)z)..i,ns cotilri t.;o pror@,.)crd by cliericals t-o oC o.r t,J.rrc ))of ore tf)e onz;ot of the at@ac,, jould bo difEic:,ll@.. !'!iT rtri@,l ii@ of I.o to proftce a specific illrieso or p-.iin LliaL wokild develop revE3ral lir-,Iirs aftot- tlio ri,vJji,,@ of2 a wis (Lioc-i@issr,,d b,,it rio/ irrr-(iiate ideELS T)-rol)o-,.r(i in coruiec,-tion. "A'JrO?',ATIC PA(;Iili@E" (P-ICrF@@ill) Irld 2FAUL,;clii@.'il,) Ibis topic was i-ntro(luced for cl!scussion L;uL si.nce the -iachino @ias d(@scril)nci Ps troi-oly c E)jirl iitterly ureles's un(lor ol)r 2 tiie iittor 1-!@13 r)Ot, In view of the fa-i.lure of tlia hypospray to L>e of particul.Lr valtio to us, Ltic fo'i.il)jcct of clcvl.ccc, for 31]jcctioli of poi@crfi.Ll !ir;it wr,:3 -3.i-iLrocluctci. I kiic-fi of' tl)o C Jjijoc@,cr-t.@rt-, of (le-,rice itil2u ns t',It- @r, lic I'@o 0,.IO I:aci ruiy r)C flic!or, i,jr,.vict-,s nn -t vf-f--j aiT t,lil G it Uti (i@l C(I":c o It t, Ti i C- Pit(] iiijector rlr.,ViCo Lli @lov-.Lce would bc (-,.Cfectivr3 for loliii@l 4 !In of de-vice could be built i.ii sm,-al sizes that could defi-tiitcly 1)ciie@rate lioavj cl.oth:ii-i Iiticltidiiip, leatlier jacketsp etc. 'Vlic aL)t.),,b Li!c proi)lcjm of a coti- trol-led rutriegitt and i-lvs value. 'rlie wri'%Ier cxdlaircd ttiat our c.",crii:ients 2 citc!nicals$ @,,.nof::Is n,d outior irol'uccd ;!,.I liul- tllc-o i!rl-c ti(.t c.litoll,r,,ti, iicl- r .d I.ir aic c, L, Wicra.L2ly tot,-)- -i work. 'rlie doctors di3CUSSIld the natter and a;;reed tli;t. cciitollod aruiecia or total aruiesia i-ias not ol-taiiiable f,,xcepu possj.bly ttirougli air,7(,ry t -wliich tl-icy rule(I otil. iticy also fc)@ tli,3t el.ectrcslio(-,k- or c!ie,,@ic.-LJ.I.y- J.nd-kicccl v,-ciiii(i @C-lilorally pro(Iiice tL,@u,.csl.i for tl,,o acti)al i3liocic ol)t2-rati-cii, w@)ijl(i riot Tr-oduc,-e ertiiesia for pf-,riods prt,.codinf,, Llia a(',,-.inistr.iUion of t)ie sliock. 'Plicy indicated tliei-e wiis s,)me Etmel3ia produced for cons3.dcrible I2)cri.ods follow-Lif:-, ttic sf,cc@-, biit tl-,is certainly. ins not I)c tir-ottly. LiLe(i )ic, felt i.C )ic r,,Ivcit t,lie pi-ot)lcil lio @iou.Id try C-",, 2 to produce an aruiesia throu(@i the use of a series of di-ffereiitly-acti-nr, psyclio@rei-ile dier-acals or chcttd.cals that act uy,,ori different areas of Llie brain. Ile 3taLcd llr,, luli(-.ui-,IiL t)tif@ I)y c;witciiinf-, tlic, c-J,.eriicals back arid fortli botli prior to flic intorrt-l@:,-iti.oti, Llie ititcrrci;,ntion and 11 r-.J,,JIL losrit)le to pro(hicc2.- I fol-m of am i t-@ r, i. -t I!n r-tr@ilo(I cr-,rtiiiily a sul@ject @ilio I)DJ tin@if,@,r!;olie variolle -t -yi(I li,,c] I)eon in- 2 YT)(,3 of' to cri-tuiii P,'-YCIIO,',VTlic. c!fi t!j.Lli v,,irial-is rlib,.-.Iicpls @iolil'i tx! CC)Ilfut3rcit 3 )iavn ',Ilffici(ilit, rl(:IIL"l clp,-ici@l.'/ t,o di-Efcreziti.a"ve I)tit@ween fact ati(i foncy. 13@- zui exLi-or-.c.Ly t)iiii,@i2,Ll co--itici(lo.ticc, I of 6@uldo;@ (tlic mcaiuractuxers of LSD) and tila Sandoz repmserlt"ktive wcre Llo 2 or L-nir,,i.iies3 rcaso)is dt)ririf,, Llic tiio-(I@iy Uc, 1).-)o rjl,(!:7c It.. if 1,!ic f,-tcb tli,-.It NNW. 151 II 2 0 '-IoiWa d tlde, atid because of tiie extremely favorable attitiidr, o lo WT-itc.l reqilosted Llia quest oned concerning. 1) -iiicl ccrtiiii otlicr2 i,clatcti to l,lic,. Lc 'Aild aiiy cuyiriiii@ of re(litirct'. for rcse,,arcii C-U,. dthat 'Oa;idoz. was 2still extrer-olv Interested in t)ie materl.al w-,d vi-@is stjll produciiii- spino. A5 to ttio ititcrests of Llic US"'R iii LSU,'it cano atit in a.convoi-- Sp-tioll t@ct@lcr2,l 11(i cii@l Otto. of aoristitils fc,.lt tliit. t.ll(, U5"it @l,-s ttot wj.tli L,@-1) ?-Iirarrn@,ly tiot iL all i.nleroo@ed :Li Llic drig. stated he birell tjis oti the fact Lliat several years qt;o lie attended an ititex-tiaticaial coilfei,etice, app@u-eiitly 'Ill(i n@t fli@s coiift-ratice tl,,cre t-.,crr., a of 'oviet sc2ieiittqts onrt or rtlior titc, r.,,iLij,ect of rrf,oL in,,i J.ts ocrivatives -io I)art of o(;d ci -t St -,-Pi.nf, i 0, -it f he riists that 2 c!f-rl.vto -iii(i Llicy hicl tio .:iii t.iin ,i of 'Ll]lo.Lr a@v-tituJ(3 qtid iiitci-est. lso inforrect tat lie vas 6oili(; to tlte West (;o@wt Iri tlio tiext feii cinvs to at:,cii(I a "',:cst Coast Federation AL Atlantic iity,- jortcy, LO Ati,:i-icwl f roll 9-1.3 t@A)r 12r5, TL T)( 2 ;o to -,,Map C', f(,,r :-(7cor, Mimi Of p@ll-ticulir lti@el-tut ,7_ro t)@o follmlilig r 2 t@n t, C, W, cli aroon f roi a -r 17,;c 1 t3/(O Of' c-':" v3c':z3 li-13 III Ltic ",-@O Of Ei.a nn St:! Cfl t"")L PVrtilor 'ian(loZ; had nct triect co,,i,bi-i-Iation effL,.cLa '6ith tr,'L tlicy do intcli(i to try. Iii ad(litiot,y 0,21(lol, J.c; workirij, on r-f tlil Uf partlcu---ar lit'klciast La Wic writt-sr2 was tll@tt laa(la the s'Lat-cr-,ont tlwt in exteiit of )o@ t).,,, tlir,, t-17rlti 2 OL3 lid (Icvo.].C)I! Lor II,,,, li:,' lie t-o clrvr-,lon @,")is tlcrr- wi Lli I Jt i-,Iimlcl be i-6ecalled that Lo (,,icrc i.ncUvitl,.ials for :-,peci.fic r-roi-tJ.i c-i i IIC!L c".tcl tiol rz',@) Ia(2l to lio III 'WanLed to uoe it a t a pir ty. AtillllWstated "rlidoz viir, altocktd at ttiis wid turiicd it doi.;,i biit r-,ubsocluniitJ@v t)i2J.f3 c;nr,o poi,con iii lolly-@ioo(i oLutl3.11(,d J,",I) @1!1(1 iiino (:Jotu,cc@L Ulil.710,,iii) ;@tici liorj @i.i,-,cd I.o'uli U r i2.n tiQ )i 1-ki, C., tr, wcrc violc,i)t-l r;rit.1 l,ci-r@.bl.L-. 'rltc, -..rritor folt tf,.at lit, cr)ijlr! ti.ot, f.liir, fiii-t@er 2 ),Cr 41'11111wo nil,,l r)l)",Ijj,. LI I 131@o P-Tifl iio,.tld. ti-y to T)xit.-Tp. tlila itifor-i-lo.Lioii of at A2tirii',tr (3.1-y I..,ii Jt Glicitlt.1 rc,@-a'l otl t)l-t. L?-:o of.rcr-t"@t of a-it; ir, -tc: t@;c .ii-iLcr li)o-,io is iii 2 tiL OL co,-i.-- s-,trpicloiis if too sliirp querL.Lciih a.9,@ed coiicarning iiai (lescribed 13y bot!i 7 )d q ti t.i ved )to (U.d tiol likc it priririlv iL proriuced bi-,iises .,rl 1.@ Cr.,r )lj I @)z @in@ (ICYiCrn rll@2.1 @iOM !:IJL c:r iiitcd (-,it that a li@T;o-- r,-iy cliild t;afel.@, La ue:,od tlu-ouch 'Liii[; or leautcr. IIICY WCIO TIO@ ffirillar ti (:loL 2 a,', 't,lin E,f c l'Y 'ii.c dc@ctoro at, i-c f,-.tilliar witli t)ic, ,rirJ.ous ticrve oilr -,oiit@rrd J.,i 'V,'tr) l'OT prr.,ductiai of raiii-u.Isiotis ns a direct vc,@,iron or poe3il)ly tl,.c o--o or tl,.o coma pf-riod follo-,t.'Lnr ttic ot)-iv'JIGJ.OT1 a.'.3 a tlrar'.-Z Of The iit,.itor qlco souii(i Ps a rzthad for setting off a coiivulsioii in a cliericaily-coiiditioned subject. The doctors, familiar @.;ith coi,.vuloioiis ajid sliock therapy were iiial)Jc l@c c-,ff(-r ul-t@c@'Lfl.c siirl, -tiozis alllic ilitErcrtirlf-,. '.Utley Gut(-.";COL,cd tIlE, follatn.2,-Ili." a). Armniiim Clilorid.o Ammonium Chloride ititravcnouc;ly -vrj-ll prc>duce conv-ulsions. b) Pyradox-iii (leficieiiciofj wi..U c,-uot-. connil3ioiir,. c) ErJ.a-@ol (,nii an.-doF, of 'i-otrazol) is a convuls,-).i)L. As Tri7,ol i-,i U@,rpi.-u@y 1.11 1938 aticl 1939. d) )@ibcral, a barbiturate of the Tli LLLly Company is a convulsant. 2 d) llaoes ium )ulfate intranuscularly wil.1 cauz;o cotivul-,ions. rl,,. es e.xtc:isivo uz;c of iiid (;orticc[7,rapli e@lu-Lprcnt. Iii pr,-rticill br,-tiri @i@iv2e studics am macle in.epilepsy slid in diock tlierapy. They sf,,itect Llicy @m-re al)out to receive -@ nci7 t3T.0 0 f E;-,G machine wliicli al-ilopiitically i-er,isLer/s in 16 pos-.iticiis. 2 l@oth an(I ;.tnd !.rel)arately staled that FF',] ruid Cor-tico- gri3.pliic st.i@dies .,roiild I)e very u3fiftil in testin@, rici,4 drii6s in corulecti.on 2 iyitli tlicir sL-@ @c effect. (i-loto: 'rhis. gLatcr.,i@-tiL 1) is be(,ii r.-lado aii(i ai,,ai.ii to fi!o "Pe rt,-port oil Alorif,, tl)cop- li.,ics2, cw ,Powmwand otlif@rs cc.,!-,i.-rtitc(i tl,.at t)-ic n deeply iriserted eloctro(ie teclinities slioul(I I)c of irn-@ence vfklut-. 2 ]Lniml tests ut3iiir, tlintic tochi)i(Ttios rlre now beJ.iif,,, i4@l.dely tis(--d aiid Lai& r ------------- rair-ii lic.14 lnzLrz-J.;,] Oli L)ra!ji f',A;ictic;ll wo,,.Ilt'@ bo ri,--v@c3,o[Rd. 2 -ic )iU ill Iesti iit, ailcl rc!so,-z,c)i oil poyr-tio(-,eTL MOlk4,in t)ic SM.-xnd at a m>ccial 2 arma sevc,,-aLl milas out- rnly of r,@-iliv roloriics o[ I)i(-s, crtij, cf,c. Init oiily a fcw ((I or 10) 2 llic,,se aiiijrals are pri,=Uy lield for Lost.Lnf- dircctly -oit pure resclircli ii3 caiitljitiolisly in comiectiori wiW j3pocia-1 clinical cases2 L Io -,I"(i t(, c.,-irt-y r@,lit Llicir a-ii.-I.Iiis if 1.1ils to flititro (@Iiii ol'fer was not,.de2vrlcr(,,,i rn-nfii.,i,: Ctittii,3 t3ttilij.) ti!,ed tli@it ;as Cir m.!j lie la&-,w LIc? @,ct-,t rar.),.vy rl-lony In nt tli2( I'Lli@in r tl @o "RR, 0 thit 1> !)(,I,!l "fct.d 2 11(i llilt 1,1,0 rintt,'tr-y col.ony nt i 90 itie@l 1.0( ti(, ,yi t t',If:,y 1-jrM 2 (J. dsolmrvl of @-io r,' wt Lli @'iT,-dtzj.nfr ri.ce" or wi.th t)ic it@Lbbon rut Px--nms-.cd lntprcst iii t;ttj(IJ.on @il9tli ti-@c! nlthou,,,,)i a(L-Lit,t.J.n[r, lie @.-nrii IJ ttl a (.,f thc., t.!,Te. ow@ woiil.d I)c i.nLcrc,,gtc,(l i.ii the il@ibbon 1,,iit J.rplcr,.(,,jiLation c;f t,iii s not tievelopcd.- NOI'FO All pcrsoruel ititervicwed at tli ry e:27,I) iti.cally --Wow&" ..;Oo statp.(l to Llie writer t I i,,.t ta priva iid ttiab c.,peri?,lt-ntal. work. COIAld be atle: pled @ii tii Lileir r)a2tients except iilici-c it could l.io dl,.oii-n tlint it defittitely tiorked for the patien'vs good. Iliey made it very clear Lli,@t their work wtiz3 to li(31p tlloge tl)at i-terc- il.1 -ui(i pc-,ii-itad c.-.ut ti),qt t)icir speci.01LICS vrerfi,iill aJr-@ec@ iii tli,-.iL (tiri@cti.on. saicii Ulinb this (Ji.(t not, CXV.Tll')f, tlicm fropi 2 stilLtyinC,, Llie ef Ceets of tiic new drugsj(i.etert-iiiing posciible u3es of nei-i di-ugs, desigillng ilioti-itr,crit,., ox, from workiyig to !If.-lp Govel-Ti-i.:@,2-It ii aiiv- vrtiy t)Lt,.y coiil(). ili(,@y qLitcd tlio wottl@l I 3vc tci Ix, f2tt to rvo.L clip-li.elif cof tiio virious ideis tite t-iritei, liad (-.xprosred to thoi. aiid that certain nechniiisms catild be set up alon(-; tijes(, lities iri(i ecrtaiii lliclividuals s@iotild 'Lje'cleared. (sEe follc,,,rinC) 4,.t it 2 ln Llics 1'.iiial ry EC.Ijo,,;:Ililr WCl.o reconi- A.11 of LlieSO itl(l' Vifil],IlIJ @-11-C 13S talents co,,ilci I;c lo2yal atid patriotic'@morican citi.zeiis an(i wlio, in ti io opinion of the doctor.'s p.,-esenL, vtoiild b(,. to lielp enl cmlrt T.-,ike. subst,-iitial .3ii,-i(invor ;1,)-Icli ti)cy @t'clt" blit,, A.,cricy t4 rip' @7 7 Drl TC)j c,-"= aill '&!uTc@odoid ui til I PO OWBIIRT SI'Urq)TATPUT Otil Sq 'LL-DIP el-uzz)dO-03 0'4 S2UCUOU-TTT-pi I)Uo ris-aTerqluEi r-GEno-tilad D'II'4 To c@-,-Bo -Oq 1 41 1.011 .10 'tau uti 01 Dlrlu J,:).l lpi@4 oj 1011 "x,;A 0'.1'1 I[V Ut'l 4JA,@.v4j, c chiririr, tlis tr-.tp -"'iou.Ld Lc @it Llir,, 'icl) level. I'cir, -uiy L;as -y b@-isl:i. ilil:s t. ip wcull tlieti form a c,@ crnt,-.ct or iirrlc c a _prioril ;x ol zoi-t (@f of @tr@mr or a liuclo-,,s tltrt, ori 2 tt) clc,-.i-cri Jji Litc.- c,.rent c)[/Lroubla tlial writid rrL)L,,-,'uly be extronaly valtiable J-n ind in advica. Tli(,@ .rri.tcr iilolics tr) I)oi.rit c-it i,.l i'@ol, iii.s J.(.ra t,l:t tti-it J.L t;rc-ltici t) ol.c"- Il-L'IIP. LI t, I'- FLLIJ. tll 2 L-,Liltliilcs can I!e -6i(la oynilal)le for o,,..Lr wi-,rk, witli Llic c..-dy I;rcvision Lliit it -utst be rer.,arL,-ax-ed t)io P71@l l2iur,-ori e-tccrt crrritcl c;%,t. c.!;i f I L" ,I! IV cl-i r.,d -,LI -u I r,. r, v s 1,-! c 7,@, 2 ry otiL4 to 'Ulie -iiriter Ll;,rt Tio tioney dL,-rbi(: ;-,'Orl(l '.Inr II for a-iy of Uio -,fps dcr-LC for the tl.L,. 2 tr, 1,oLcd rrirvl:.-,tsly tllis "I Go-mi-nran t p p,,irtirtilaxly the U.3. liavy. i;oa more of an c::t7lorntory n.-,Lurri sti-I li77r-cli.,ilc ro:o7ultsl tu@ via3 rillit,-r air-,.@l aL a po-,ici'ule'fti.IJ- cooppraticr.1 iri ttic fliture. NNW" 'form 'A slow lp ill@ j,-lt@ir-dl@r3 9 t, I)ril Llie wriLLr 2100 wirl 5:00 ab Usual.* was riogt c6-@ci)erv.Livg arid -tgaia expro3sod his willi-) pless to car y otit 2 f'e.IL Uir.-t tficon iic-n.poi;s ("truth serum" ri-nd psyr-lioE.:mLic clierlit-als aii ijitel2J.- -,-,-,nce iiertpons) iirre mico tlint require,,t a f-,r(,at dc.-il riore tirl- *Lid atteiiti(xi Lli,-in lnyon@n lie of h,-!kl placcd in t)icrl. to (Int@c. lic, i3@,Ptcd -,IV Llic I)Mscnt tire'lti'g crirdnrLI.viorlc itil'i was rli3cJ,2,itig off I)ocalirr-, iaz not in i.,ood licaltli rui(i I)ccatit3a cf.,rt-aiii I)ooplc at tli, tl-,c uz:e @.,f t,lic it,Iut]l .90@HL-iti" tccl:n2J.(Ilito, (@viri for as -tt)(-t i on. ((j't.,hc-r i.nlj I'CjitlLc :-@t, L)i '.Ici lie lind done a feii ricro c.,isou i(i Iiio re-oliltn )iad botn good ai far -is Llic' I-,olice voi-e coticfrn(-,d. tited at tlle 7;q pre-ecnt Lirc hc, sil)icr itood scopalorlino ititrnvxitioual- -it tlio 3 bcf,,iruting or tiic or. @-to, i).--cq - nto 1. i WitfLiti ti)(2, np Xt tc,!] r-LI" -ItEtc;o. Ile Ile d it has producect ralisfacto2ry M6.'UltS au far as lie tjaj3 conceniod. tefi 11(3-liad not luid a c)iwica to Log t C2'ut (,Iilorpranaziiie 0 (k)no. llri I ri i@,i ticntotlll-]. ril(i fllt til.;s aliclild 1), t WC 2 Lxaniiie ri lic-ri '.i,- lind :Lnt(,rest iii tllie@ tlicre vrcre -ul f J.ni to rri.H>er of clint..dcals to 1),o tri'el njiti in Iiis opinion (stated to@ the writ,-r pre- vioualy) aii [..T-',Il cssollt,.I.Ell to 2 @',@tod in I.n t'.,ic nc(Lr ftitul-p-, )ie i,,-ic to linvo ;L. Ii for tl;_c '-clr t@,itilr -,Ole 'Ilzie witli tlii@,i he cotilj -iid would test in a lJxLi@nd wajr if we wmild s,:!nd clicr-icals of Jjiterest to u with proper s,,:pportJrlp, infc)ttmtion. cli;marl cxay:ii!ic i i)f,w rtt..omir..%l c,,tucd il'i'l) wilic-li "Cu Lor7ii (tc-;,clor-ed 1--y -3ii fusLr,,tli_an 'Iti Aiotritlj."L 1.)y Lile tiall!o of 2 t crilcd this cj;crdcal as i sy,ecJ-Cia an i@,,onirt to tlio barbiturates nnri lie lias booti at-ter.Tti.,iF, to obta-In the c2lienice-I f ro-.r. %O sto. C(@ I)rot-dsett to SE'lla ac@.,e of t,@c cite:-,.ica,l t-o woo L.-it(2,d lin i;culcl wcrlc -til U-i c-, s anc it. V.Ilc.-ii it arriva(i and kcal-) us I,,) i)ilc ci@nr-.c(-Lloii lie c;4',ated ttior@ tlici-t-, i.2,) irt-LcJo Jr) the jA';(;I;r of qi:cl .)In -ilT, LI-.is cli@-,--,-Lcii] j, 2 a tl,,c -IC L im s pro -n tort lic @-i 1 rw ol' I -I rjlcr"l,.031C:Lo@:y ccitroo) Tispactcd 5 t)iat irorl,- And mm t)int lie lias)- of tz p 41 t-o Ids room stl(l ',,ZS ]IC,-Id C!2cr4W lmw hln itorl-, -,4,in t.7r essinr- on "tritli rcnirin.11 Accord-in,;,, t J I 2 work Oll rn,,l @.-Ilci )IC ,J r t 2 i(l, I)rc.,jz;f-d Lilic t.-i( t cc] forenco to attond and I-,jmdiately loft tlio roon.. 11, fAIJ2-3 connoction, it is interect:Lnr, to note tilat re --ps f,.icrlly C- 'a d n:3 a 2 b. Jst@@w)to @310%r ILim 11, d TiOt, Tr;i.IC(- r, IIC,@S at Ili,-J, t -crnric(,(l that @2Pd flitl I C ILCI WUlLId like to talce inliovror voillo Ito @mz b I uio o.. ro ri 14o otl;er derta-ilr, ;2.31cnif, tfiin l.ina vtora fievol(ii-,od. fol-lowin- r-,a@re 11-c pl.,i(,oi in lkccrlci I;f@ on 2 Cl. t3 -i doctor, cl.t. ,wcd t LI I ilice Ila is lio 1,..sve I2ii,,% c-,lntr,-ket rril.,. )'ec. am)arently a (;orr-,unirt. I've stateli L)iAt a wiloln lio know at tlio r.,.i a clf)ctor, linfl rpl'tine(i tc-,. I-o F@i t o tlio VIr;tcrnils to ac(.Cpt A positioii 'be.CP.Ilsf" )IC- lipti t,,' glt-ji ml 2 hot&, a very )ii,.Ii t@y-I)c of @ct,aori anri for c-oiltict. t 2 iad rai:r. cort of f 1)1-) IIJ.LL (.1 wlileii ));ivci 1)(.,cii' i,cporte5d pre-7iousl@r. As stited mimffgmks extl-e=ly co-opct-t3tive aiid offered his services ill ally WV lie coul@i I:n- Of IIL-1p to--iir-,. L'i tl-,il RENMCN=T.**t-F)e liict riot y-,t -,ottled oil hii3 f-.)Luro.liaviii ePveral offors for @,,oi-l@ i;I)J.cli )-@r! 11--ka L!i:,t if tit-- (t, i,,oiild Fz sent-I iti.-i rui.,r-..cliorLicils 'witli flic itf-,ccrslil-Y liifoj tioti for tlicir ucc! he would be glad to zrnke lbd@ed teals witli thcm alung lines or iiiwrost to us. Ile request@ed i-is forwnrd iliforration on Scratoidn to him an(i also soiid IiJn wlin@ !miteri,-tl iiis avai.23.Able on tlic. i-iork tiint tis C)inr, 11 -iccrif witli L%L)rc of '-Ila Ilt(,rvLture on L-!;T) but told Llio wriler c had riot worl@ed @iJ.t)2i i@ cYpnz--LroritAlly t)r L'i Euly of his clii-dcal ctties. Ila mco(.-idzn(l its t,-xtx-e,." intorc-st frori a psyclic-anic point or vi(-,, 6,i(i Tit t,io i7r-l.t2cr',.3 ire atiotild fon!,-,r(i certalyi cliordeds ror h-is study tuid uce but we mhould not go riicli bc,,@-otir.A t,!,,is it tlio pi-er,,.-nt tl-ro. lie %-rritcr feels 2 tlitit ])rcsc:it tJ.,-r, st,i.11 y, at t too Er a -J@i lii Iiio i!.@ind foi- -Lo becoi-,,o- i.!l worlc ofa 2 U@Lre @I)iilo it, ii cp'ovJ.ciu:3 wil 1 i.iii-, to co-opry-,"to iii.Lli its wi@l In a BirGli t,r 2 r Uiat y I o@,ii(i hLn t;or .I- ct)TlrJ-t:-riitn r,.Ijrjttld not, 1,) L(- or ronsitivr-, 2 I-o )iin ii.o-,i. 4r, rpcnt '.no4--- "')iirid.-,,y aftcriioori, 10 AprJ.1 -r..rL 0 'PI](, erri.toi 6 f that vr i 1L tlo cl tit !i etitii-a opcraticni (I2 st@itod ao coon as clcai-axicas c.,@ro U uoup irott'Ld ',Io roci-.joci very atitl,,.isiest@ic ol-,ait -i-t Jti.Cormcd the %4rit(,r )iis t,e.,3,-l ;i;@r, 2 t,(i f.-,o. lrr,, L!i.?.t l.f Llicy wcz-o riot rcei tal-,,! nr rt.Ytrrrr'LV ;-,I iLfom.-il-icn fro.-.i citjicr a nc2i7,-:ti-,,m or positivc poilit of vlcw. lie z) &ri extrer-oly br.illi cuit man j;iid vras capable of T)roci@tcif be ol' Grc,,ot. val@it,. 1!,-, ilr2i-,rd '.It,-t oii ILir. ncxt tr-.ti-, 1,1 rrwii,,,o a c )I ly with aiid rir-ri aiir-I Uli-,;mial clieriicals and conbiliaticric il-id2 the writer sliould l@,tLLk d Lriar ILim On neit clicrdcals and now areas o.f ititerest Ell'.n ideas woul(I vrri st.ro!ir,],, c.)rJ.ciit,f,,d I.ii f-,Lir dJ.rc(-,tioll ari'l )%is eixtliusia.9ri njid etierey Pxo wortliy of corr,!@cnt. As is tioll kii(nm.. his police connections wul othcr coruiectioiin Ln tti 2 srn, vrry i.-ide a:id iriportzint'vn(i it J.s fe.-It, Wir.L rcspc-ctivr, -rat on fr ",O co- - -i c, - fulure 2 'diiculfl bo conatruitly )iolcl es Eui ililLnriL .1, .ign of LU -iforr,!Iddmkllnil 1-@o 1(,f t )@J-.i t.!iit ))tl 14rrLil(i rlIICC ax-2ra -o llic ia-i. ".cr 1, nf, 7'(@tl@ZI Oil )II'? tr'.Ll-l !'.O nT'P-'I. tC -r@i.L' C I icil- In i-,I,p @ri-:Ir@..3 of nii(J il,:i i-elpi,icii to r@n Ipr:Ll, ]Dft,,trcn 2:(,)O wict arT)rox:L-@itely 5:00 fl"- -,Li tilc if &and= trl):cd to at t] Is regai-,iod I;y r-ruiy know:Ledge- able LicUvidu.,-Is as rrotably Uiek.(nt&;Lwidlni; in tho Uaitad Z;Lates, r v i rr -Iy co-opnrative anJ z;@Lr If r)ot Llie i.,orlcl, -Way xt price(i 2 -ct )i.3;i bf!r!ii iriUrc@@ticr;d, F@iy Llic the writi,,r @,,7 aftor Llie fct)crrj. Lmil@je very firtue field fo toxic "-irlircoms lind not b@ecri 2 i'@irt)iLr c.,cplored. llli@@--iid Iii, vias wcll qware of the fact that there 1,,row :Ln the l';ov-iet Uaion ni&irocriz tlia@ toxic tuid tl,,o lltcritui,o ccinLaLIcti rn.riy 2 (,.f tl,,n I'lie u-i-itcr r,),owe( le 'Tory xto!isive list of c4uestic@ns and IISPIZS of v.-.rimis rtuulu-oomi i-71ticii t ;,,Ith Uia wri2ter. -,.,ii lic(i t).(% .1-I.St ,Ilirl 1-ho li.-i@ st I n.-@ ir,,rc li.tcrollv Llio,.it;-Ijl(ln c%r L'r 2 Lliiited !7itnlv,os v.4ticli i:e lzicri tioUiin,,7, wid lituijred of wliiali are. toxic. Ile otated If i;nrk w-m to be dciie a:Lcnf,, thcse lines, ttiose species th&L n7-iaL iii the U.S. @Lnil (@,,forJn Lf, qtiitJJ.ed first. Ile o@,7.tc,.(t Lliat Ivii(? -Lci-l corite-,it oj' tjic rTishi,oo,-.i is lif,t in hio field and tlii a tox2ic.!-Uy, or clitrl 4ould roqtiiic t3. pit,-,rTmeolor;J.ot or c)imdrt pl.ur, cnr(,.I:@il rcsoarcli. IICL )iot-7cvtr, tli.-it tliin iit)z-k be cnrri-otl oil. ta@('fj tll'lt "JLS siiiirirr-lio isk,,i to n tio-Icl r t lp c@, 2 ]it- s%tntil.ti Lc, vr,,r7 rlse.l t.o.col.l.ncb. ri)(I Itn litlil.cl (lo ttij.3 @tree I.-ut if rxtolitil@ve collpctlotiti in.-r2L- to 1-.,e rn.1-r'Lect oiit,, 2. !3ral.1 em of money would be noodod to liire Posistanto to help Idm coll.ect (pr-o.)ably -i(L-c(i do2.1,-xs iiou-Id suf fici al4 liku nnt). Ile s.-J.d lie wmld the Po -dolt( 3 iif., c.,)iac.bi, L svn 14i@r III- coit3.(.I:ilt l)-a Ijirlit(IciLl i.n a 7rv.-it, oF tltir, lctrit@i ar,(l ir!i.- in collecl ter J. of ltitemst -to us on. t.Iiis fir,,lll trip. T-ii clevolopaiir, llin of work on -,m7s lie could assist this Agency ho felt t2ofoi,e wlyt)iing elra si,.culd be Oczic,, i,-irJ ccrtaitily 1.@cfoi-c lin lor@vr,,o for --i:r.Trr tiot,l, Llii3 yrnrj scirrcl.1'.c 'I r tt,-itl ie2io 10 Ltic frl-ri f,lic A:,- ,Ytcy -Tialit Iiiii. lie rl;.itecl lie wolltld L-c rlad to sit dmni L,-Tid dit3cuss tlle (nitire problen w-.1th that lnditidual and would welco-..ro ideas aiid t!iouglits aloiig Iiiic3 c-f intere:3t to us. -,c n r fJ orq9ii@,icnll.y to tiio 2 te,7,,trded L)ic foU,.7winF, ao A nat,ter of c-xurei,io rt,aL#,,ri tti@it from his .-tu@ly of -r@islii-oc@rL3 rutd fi-om.iiis IcrioulL"(AL@l of @,;Ov-iet activ-iticti a-long these lines he Is com, l.otely co.,iv-iTicect tlie :.:oviets are atte-;-pt:Lng to proftce late.- or frcti rnislirOOTnU. 110. :-,tifLil li,,2is a' ritblg-,i7!- fniitinr,, t*i@ij fin tll,-IL l,lie c, wis @iit.crostorj -.@ii tlti3 mialiroon for U! ... i'aci2 11) a(l.. n to LILt.,3 tti,-@t. t,lin r,,r@--ul) t@f riisliroc!ns clefi.3iit-ol,,f tii(t L-it@cx J.tt i@,s bo(iy piid Ui;pt Ito 1-iicii t'@ic .cv-.L2ato .T,-@uld 1)(, t))J.u lir 1-@oJjitc(J l.o t),e ft)rt-, Ll;n ll:iiir:zi nl)lc, oi- cc,-,tl.cl cor.,r iip irj.tli a ii:ay if rirvolopi.ric, tliii tlley wculd I-,avo a source of cnide r-ubl;cr and it @.,as his rilesr3 tlie./ rlre clol-nc am-ictly th,,it. I!e stated Uint this i.rrs oxtrcticly iiii@oi,tailt. Ito su,,;,orted oc Of Rcti7-itics in ttiis field. Ile stated lie did not Iciow tlje political ort(,ntstioti 'it. lie f42lotlld l@(" cr)ylt,actcd willi Iiin n.t orie time tlnd iT as A carDblO rr5lcolocl-t but undoubtedly a corminic;t. In Mrliti.on to tllial slid lie w(is no-,; conr.Lncn,--', je coLlecLllt,,, rTtisliroom:7) not Cc)i- Iiiit f(ir ni,)i(2,r rcirotio. llc-. s U c,,. LL-.(i iii) until -L fmi 1-ror3 n,-o tliore wm iio inlai-est ill-aw..m ruidira OnB CIVOIL ;;I2'CW tl)Gl-g al'fLUICI.-Jltl,7 Ile stated ncn-i theie is a lirraicit -of t!ie P. is ,rrr7f zicti" in fir,,.I(l a-iii ofitocl thic; doliart- A.r, ll(,Rrl.2c(l 1) I (i J. 0 I r L,,,-toiicrdst. I:c @L-li@ed it w.7,.a of partiriilar ii-iLcr-r.Lit to llirl I,r,,cau--c a youn47, lady tia(l bec-.i so t b f ron tli sale=, 2 to ix)i,ic )tlriti(? t-ic prect;@dinp, siir,--cz- 4.Lt,l "@f)iis yotizi -ii i s very iivs tslccd by4m la(ty., I ar2 d a )i(,. wis wor.VIiir, witit lilri aTI(i )lot looldnf,, for mudiroc!riq i-i i i i,,,, L-itr re,,@lird is tiot m@v oLlit,i,2,, ni-r., cov(ii-.In,r to Ila b ir el.s.3 I f T,7,T W-,-7 lie a a i,e:Lial-il.0 Am2cric@vi citizenj a very capable rlicolot@iat and mcoru,-,ciids lilm. lie called attention to the-fact tlin.t ttie Sound P,.rea coi-itnins n ran7 to,,de -,;cd Ltio C C 13 C C- -nde(I him as an cxcellent riycolocizt, 2 ar d and hii Iy recomr. i-.).tcri out that 'lit-re VTC,1'0 T-1,U@V a.,i..i T@,iziy iin-Imovrri Lo-Aic fl f.,:r-l stLnl7 tirr!!@il2 a.,iu4 w-itli this tei-ritcry intinalcly. St d that ire cliecic wlio is an Qfficer C of tllc Ile stited t@iJ s ort- niiJ.z.,itioiij (,f @.,Iiicli I;r., loic@i riotliixtf-,., iq cf c:rtirrm,(, iiiLer,@z;L to I I 1,7, boc.-,u@so IiJ.ii J.n COtIllOCtj.OTI 2 a ii)i)t-,cr-prod-jcJ.,,iZ; -ns)ii-oori. tam a -,Mir P7.who in tcclinca.L @I)OSS, Le cleared. Ile stated -,iorc di-,inf- TP,r .1,, for iii) cit!-,cr of.ficlail@- or ujiof.ricJ.ally., rJ.' j.u stat,ed au fsi-r ss l2tr@ knpwy a r,).tarnnce of cor)o tyt>c. tato(i hn laievi v6ic J.s nnii i-inrkirig at4qiii", a cqlinblo rWcolo,,,icit but his lioll-@lcz3. low backgroiind J.s .hibi.ouc, 'I@roi,,;tbl-y Also of ijitcrcsb is tllo fict thni@ ri@-co:Lol-ist 2 it tiid Iiin iii(i Isl%it-I ji(i Ile C- f 2 ;!tli(I x@cc:,-,Lrc,,t i r@ucti '-viii, f.)(.,foro L frc)m L ho. CGIII(I lielr). tii(i lie 2 dJ-d R@i,zioL Pno Ila V" a bcGJ.nnixig a sL naturc of the converention, he felt Lhal--, u dv of mushroorw 3hxtv-big pcyclioi,-miic of.fects. 7, -P-r,6 had rzkc fiL-.% E;ic'tc, rm@;u hin d.Lz3y) destruy ldz coordiii:-.tiaii., a;id orientation qji(ij :in f.-ct, Pct uT4!c.).i hLi lii al,-.,out c,,L-ry .-a2T (txccpl Icill I,i--i. lip- ctluc(l. )IC t,.-C-ttici nin -icrcrs iiitncrous -or @irin-, e (I f -ill i- expri -o or.rc lo. 1i, riotirocT,.3 ri Crci.. Ldcyclt. an(i ]in and hiz3 wifo after Verpa Pohci7la, a c-all wild spi-izie, varicl-.y. iintivt,. LO vic!iril coordiiitif-i;-t to cloor. ita@c,,,J tiiis fj -ld c:t,,,,lor-ed. I'c, n--r3.ti ti-,nt lie i-iao Tot ',-:i a i@osition to mko cltc@--dc,-,l tcal@- or pliuriacoloirica.L tculr, an 1;.it )ic coixltl 2 col@rct r,:iii of to itu a,id lic clo r:o if rait tic-.-c r.-icte urr-rotts t7ush- roono of ltitei-est L'cr t.iic wrj-t.cr uid c@-,n- riilod oi 0 aliowed Llic t!--3 6all@@cti.oii of pin@lt,13 L LI Fil.ns c(. i,v irk,rl,@i 2"9 v.-- L c,,r-il I. C C C, rol.. !,:II Cr I- 1,11(, '-tic 't O Jr I1-1"gt C-,ilrl Ir. 1.7@l:rri -L;li proL-,il-.Iy wl'@li T',",!'o t ciiec. t)i,@ vir A L-C r ha a ro or A -i-nc,- I r, c@- iiii(,cti.nii.,i ,r.1 Lli tit