',.',,ircii 19@2 via view o4 llefercri(,.(, 13 ma(le to iTi@' Mr3fTlOl'ntl(iuin d,-ite(I 6 1--(,I,2ruiry 195:'2 re- questing permission to Interview In connectlon -4itli the Artichoke problem. 2. On 7 March 1 9 intervie-4ed from 10:00 A14 to and the writor In .@Us5O JUI b Altlio-,igli cleared A gncy employco arid ooq holds a responsi 1-@! )o3lti,)n in and the writer dis- @ii is that cussed random subjects w he was competf,-2nt, lin(i a i;eriorql lntere,,4t in Artichoke! type .4ork, arid i ty!i o Appreciated the nects3ary sf@crecy involvnd In tfii, of discussion. .H,aving established these remisL%30 2 as interviewed along A.''Artichoke lines. af ter hnving "en given a '@%ri,7?f resu,-ne I., as Interf--3tCd in-the of, the Artichoke worko stated ttiit, whereas lie 'ri ed it clearly 2 iinkl,-@ritood tli-@it lie felt rioral-ly opposed problem, bn want to the Ai)nlicntlnn of these t-Rclini(4ue,,-i in7,ofar ii lie p(,,rioiially. is concern--@(J. Ili otited, liowov(,r, Lli-aL h(, rc,-co2fnized tlio fact that we are at war and tli,i "'A rl-- using t,-@ctinlquis ,ind cvcii iviore 'rrut,al int-thod.'3 for obtnitilni,,, ttieir i: stated that whll,? lie could not carry out such techn2iques as injecting ,drugs into an.in(lividualp he, nevnrtheless, felt that he could quite legitimately study the problmm from a scientific point of view And from the point of view of one who Is attemr)ting to understand how the 7-2 obtained the r 2 esults they did in cases like the trial. tliereafter, (liscu!-,3(,,d at cori,-31doratle length cer- tain vi s that hp holds on the @)!--,ycliolc)i,,icnl conditioning of in(livi(iu- al,;and how individuals could 1-92 ec)nditiono(i to nchiev,@- nost Pny result provided t;ime enouph warl% i,.-iken rir,(l tti(, inilividiiptl@l 4pre 3tudind in i clinical psycholocricil. t,ti,,it, p.,iyctiolo,,;Lsti ind ).gyciiiatri.,3ts work to,4nrd re-,torili(, nnci ',-uil(ting up of a per- sonnlity, it is ot)vir)u,3 th,,it ttii rever-3i ot' tiil..3 viotild be true -- that a porsonality could 'v(- cliniiged, Liit-3nn(- neiit-1 c2orifu7,ion could I)e or()- duced by dolit,prately Attacking an indivicikial a'lonf,, [),qycholofrical lines. t'liat, wti,2r,cii tiri hi(i -itu(ILe(j Uli@? -P casm 2had never occurred to liim that he would ever consicjor using these,techniques from an Agency point of view, but he felt that as far as ha'was concerned, he would gladly assist by attempting to figure out from a aia@,o@.view how,they conditioned men lik before the rmtr6iwa@pso nTI(3 tll(-, wri.t@!r talk-!d A th tiie @.rtictioko work and possltlg xiseg liyTinoL.1--mi i-n continctioll ;4i in goneralp it may to said that filt ttiat tli(,re 4,.i!; a I)osi- I that in lviduAl3 under hypnotism tive. use for hypTlOtigM. ife agreef will give information, but lie polnte(i out that it cotild Tiot xl-,iayr, be rate, nince fantasy an(i ev.2-n li,-tllucliiqtioiis Are pre-3ent regarded ns accii in certain iiypi,.otic striteg. fit-,Aterl tiiat he li:@(i ot,if--r-v,!,.l -,iorl-. (loilE3 witti drugs 11 d lie, hliiself, hid f2)articii)atpd In to cxlract J.riCor- mAtIon from in(lividualq by drugs nn(I tiy!)nosi.,;. Iii this cr)nneclion tid the writer did not attempt to lrimedintely purq nical info on or studies, since it was folt that ad- itional intervi2ews wit wil.1 Le held in the'lmnediate future. ttirourtiout the lntorview, w.-is entirely co-olierati-@--, PIllpent, nn(i ol-vio,j,,;Iy ins int,ensely lntere!-,L@'d 1.1- appears highly In 2 -it i?iorilly though he lnsigtnd tii, lig coul(i not cnrry out nny of tho F3.Lia- bird ideas altliouvli he recognized the nt@ccusity for such activity. The writer very carefully pointed out to liat Lila 9. reaeon for this lntervio-w was not to ot-,tain Info ation r but rather to present a series of problems to iiiii and i-.t hi-m think of then and consider them in Iii!3 mind. as also specifically askod t-o consider any projects ttittt @a ttioiic;ht iiir,,ht 1,-o valu.3l,lo or in- dividtiali who could be cont,,tctecl .iii;J -,ilio wouj.d have lnformation of Inter- ast to us. 10. stated that the problen was of con3iderat,lf:! Interest tha lie regretted that he was unable Lo put full and i2mmediate at-., tention to it, but promised that hi woII16 ive tho matters discussed ould call r the writer when ha very. aerious thought and w 04 - . had culled the various matters disc ssed over In his mind and applied what knowledge he had in those connect2ions. nd Llic writer fcnl tliati ort3 will prof table An(l V,otti nre of i.ht@ Impression that xincterstands the need for --,ecracy in tlii,3 type of -4ork. 12. For n,-i@ter -,f recor,,I, it glio2ul(.1. be notpd ttiat in or(fer to isk c-)ri-@ ovrr to tlii3 (jcficc@p xplainpcl t,'n,,it tlle A r@!RS tlio intervie4 win in c-,)nti,ictir)!i witli t)ic% fict tlint know 1 nnd Iiin work it -2-