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Changes to WingMakers Interviews
Comparison of Original and Changed Interviews

Dear friends,

WingMakers Interviews Changes

Thanks to the excellent work of a key supporter, we now have documents which carefully compare the original and changed versions of the WingMakers interviews. Using simple color coding, these two documents allow you to see exactly what was deleted from the two interviews on the original WingMakers website, and what was added afterwards.

All blue-shaded text in the linked documents below was part of the original interviews, but deleted from the changed versions. All magenta-shaded text was not in the original interviews, but included in the version now posted on the website.

For a summary and exploration of these changes, read on. To view the full text with color-coded comparison of the two interviews now, click on the links immediately below.

Interview One:

Interview Two:


The original interviews appeared with the first posting of the WingMakers website in late 1998. They were changed sometime in mid-2001. Starting in early 2001, the entire WingMakers website, which had remained unchanged up to that point, began to change and take on a new flavor. Though subtle, the changes often appeared designed to lead readers back to hierarchical ways of thinking and to the need for saviors in the form of a Central Race. This is quite a contrast to the message in the WingMakers philosophy.

Though other parts of the current website have continued to change and develop, we have not seen any further changes to the two interviews since they were first changed in 2001. However, two additional interviews which were not part of the original WingMakers website were later added. You can verify all of this using, which shows how the website appeared at various times in the past. Click here to explore these changes now.

To see the entire original WingMakers website virtually unchanged from how it once appeared, click here. To go directly to the first of the two interviews on the original website, click here. For the first interview as it appears on the changed website, click here. As the two interviews are quite long, we will present a few of the major changes here which demonstrate that they were more than simply "additions" to the story, as has been claimed numerous times by James.

For those who don't know, James appeared on the website in 2001 claiming to be the originator of all of the WingMakers material. He also claimed that the WingMakers story was only a modern day myth. I originally thought the WingMakers story might be a myth, but after seeing the level of subtle, yet very sophisticated changes and the energy behind the new material added to the website, I became convinced that the original story was likely true and a cover-up was taking place involving James and those working with him. I invite you to open to your own spiritual guidance and draw your own conclusions as you explore these intriguing matters.

Summary and Exploration

Here are some samples of changes demonstrating that the changes made to the interviews were much more than just additions to the story, as James has claimed in a personal email to me and elsewhere. All comments not part of either the original or changed interviews are in italics.

Original interview text (deleted from interview on current website):

Dr. Anderson: "I decided to leave the project after I was successful in deducing the access code for the optical disc. Shortly thereafter I became aware of what I can only describe as the presence of the WingMakers. I felt as though they were visiting me . . . even assisting me in my work . . ."

The same passage in the changed interview (Dr. Anderson becomes Dr. Neruda in changed interviews):

Dr. Neruda: "I decided to leave the project after I was successful in deducing the access code for the optical disc, and felt that the ACIO was going to prevent the public from accessing the information contained within the Ancient Arrow site. There were other reasons, but it's too complicated to explain in a concise response."

This below section comes from the original interview immediately after the first paragraph above. This exchange between Anne and Dr. Anderson was completely deleted from the changed version.

Anne: "When you say 'visiting you', what evidence did you have that the WingMakers might be visiting you?"

Dr. Anderson: "I was spending 70 hours per week working on the decoding formulas for the symbol pictures, and this went on for about 8 months. During this time I tried every conceivable combination to create an access code to the optical disc. I was convinced it was the only way to open it. I was also convinced that it was purposely made to be difficult, at least to our present-day brains. It was almost as though the struggle to decode their language was exercising a part of my brain or nervous system that was enabling me to communicate with them."

"I began to hear them speaking to me. It began as a word or two . . . then a sentence . . . maybe just once a day. It didn't make much sense . . . what I heard. But then one day I was working on a chamber painting and I saw something move in the painting. One of the symbols moved and it was absolutely not an illusion or trick of the light. Then I realized that the WingMakers could interact with me, that they were time traveling to my time and that somehow their paintings were actually portals in which they moved through time. ... When I finished with the access code and it worked, I knew then that I was indeed communicating with them."

Anne: "Did you tell anyone? I mean about the fact that you were communicating with the WingMakers?"

Dr. Anderson: "I kept it a secret. I wasn't sure how I would be able to explain the phenomenon and I didn't want to arouse suspicions. ... They visited me a total of three times -- always in my home at night -- and told me that I had been selected to be their liaison or spokesperson. Of course I asked them why me and not Fifteen, and they said that Fifteen was unable to speak for them because he was already the pawn of the Corteum."

Note that any reference to Fifteen being a pawn of the Corteum is deleted in the changed version of the interview. Is this just an addition, as claimed by James? The changed interviews also delete numerous passages which talk about Dr. Anderson's special energetic connection with the WingMakers. In fact, the WingMakers there are described as being part of a superior Central Race which is intent on saving us from an evil alien race, which in the changed interviews is called the Animus. Yet the original WingMakers philosophy is very clear that in the new paradigm, our task is to transcend hierarchical ways of thinking and stop seeking saviors outside of ourselves, choosing instead to search for the deepest wisdom within.

Also deleted from an early portion of the original version of the first interview:

Dr. Anderson: "The other outcome of immersion in the time capsule's contents was a sense of loyalty to the WingMakers' philosophy and approach to life. I found myself becoming less and less technology-centric and more and more spiritually focused. There was a sense of entrainment caused by their teaching that I couldn't explain. For whatever reason, I began to loose my objectivity as a researcher, and felt myself more of an advocate of the WingMakers."

The new version appears to downplay any spiritual aspects and focus more on scientific and military matters.

In the changed interviews on the current website:

Dr. Neruda: "The Labyrinth Group believed that the WingMakers are representatives of the Central Race, and that they created our particular human genotype to become suitable soul carriers in our particular universe. The Ancient Arrow site is part of a broader, interconnected system of seven sites installed on each continent. Together, we believe this system constitutes a defensive technology."

He later adds:

Dr. Neruda: "The Central Race is divided into seven tribes, and they are master geneticists and the progenitors of the humanoid race. In effect, they are our future selves. Quite literally they represent what we will evolve into in time and towards in terms of space. ... The Central Race resides in the most primeval galaxies nearest the centermost part of the universe. ... The central universe is the material home of First Source and is eternal. ... The Central Race is known to some as the creator gods who developed the primal template of the human species and then, working in conjunction with the Life Carriers, seeded the galaxies as the universes expanded."

The WingMakers on the original website clearly imply that the home of First Source is found deep within each one of us. No mention is ever made on the original site of the WingMakers being involved in military matters or being part of a Central Race from the center of the universe. The term Central Race was never even mentioned. In the original interviews immediately below, Dr. Anderson expresses his belief that the WingMakers may actually be a future version of the ACIO's Labyrinth Group, a view which is expunged from the changed version.

Original interviews:

Anne: "Can you elaborate on the WingMakers and who you think they are or represent?"

Dr. Anderson: "I don't know who they are, but they represent themselves as human time travelers from the middle part of the 28th century. They could very well be the future version of the Labyrinth Group, or some other powerful organization."

The original interviews further comment:

Anne: "But if the WingMakers are so advanced technologically, why time capsules? Why not just appear one day and announce what ever it is they want to share? Why this game of hide and seek and hidden time capsules?"

Dr. Anderson: "Their motives are not clear. I think they planted these time capsules as their way to bring culture and technology from their time to ours. And they decided to do this by leaving behind these miraculous structures or time capsules that, once discovered, would lead people to a new philosophy or level of understanding. I think they're as interested in our philosophical outlook as our discovery of BST. Perhaps more so."

In the changed version of the above (note that Anne's name is changed to Sarah):

Sarah: "Back to the WingMakers for a moment, if they're so advanced technologically, why time capsules? Why not just appear one day and announce whatever it is they want to share? Why this game of hide and seek and hidden time capsules?"

Dr. Neruda: "Their motives are not clear. I think they left behind these time capsules as their way to bring culture and technology from their time to ours. We also believe that these sites represent a defensive weapon. A very sophisticated defensive weapon."

Again the emphasis in the changed interviews is on the WingMakers being involved in military matters, which is of prime importance to the ACIO on both the original and changed websites.

In the changed interviews (no equivalent in the original interviews):

Dr. Neruda: "The Animus desire to own this planet in order to own its genetics. As I've already mentioned, this is a synthetic race. A species that can clone itself and fabricate more and more of its population to serve the purpose of its colonization program. However, it desires more than the expansion of its empire. It desires to become a soul carrier -- something reserved for pure biological organisms. Synthetic organisms are not able to carry the higher frequencies of soul, which absolutely require an organic nervous system."

Sarah: "So they want a soul?"

Dr. Neruda: "They want to expand throughout the universe and develop their organic nature through genetic reengineering. They want to become soul carriers in order to achieve immortality. They also want to prove what they already believe, that they are superior to all other pure organics."

The original interviews talk about an alien race (called the animus in the changed interviews) which is from a galaxy 2.6 million light years away. In the changed interviews, the distance is changed to 37 million light years. In the original interviews, the Corteum is described as coming from a planet 15,000 light years away. In the changed version, this number is changed to 15 million. Why would someone go to the trouble of changing these distances if they were only "additions" to the story? Could it be that someone doesn't want us to look on star charts and figure out which solar systems and galaxies are involved?

Original interview:

Dr. Anderson: "Actually, we've tried our remote viewing technology on the WingMakers. It was one of the first things we tried. But we got nothing. In fact, it was the first time when our technology was completely ineffective. We assumed that the WingMakers had developed some form of security that prevented remote viewing. But we weren't sure."

Changed version:

Dr. Neruda: "The ACIO has a department that specializes in Remote Viewing technology, and within this department was a woman of unparalleled capability as an RV. She was assigned to the project as its RV, and she was a critical element in determining the identity and purpose of the WingMakers. ... She was able to make contact with the original planners of the Ancient Arrow site. Through these two RV sessions we were able to determine that the identity of the WingMakers was an ancient -- the most ancient -- race of humankind."

Yet the original interviews clearly state that the WingMakers are a future version of humanity. Dr. Anderson later states: "The WingMakers are the Labyrinth Group . . . only 750 years in the future." You will find this and related beliefs edited out on numerous occasions in the new version. And why change the remote viewing from "completely ineffective" to "a critical element in determining the identity and purpose of the Wingmakers"?

From here down quotes are from the original and changed versions of the second interview

Original interview:

Anne: "Okay, last night you mentioned that the WingMakers had appointed you to be their liaison. You also said that they wanted you to be their liaison because Fifteen was a pawn of the Corteum. Can you elaborate on that?"

Dr. Anderson: "I was apparently selected to be their spokesperson in this time, and not only help translate their text, paintings, and symbol pictures, but also help in bringing these things to the public's attention. In other words, I don't think the WingMakers desired the contents of their time capsules to be held in a secret repository deep within the bowels of the Labyrinth Group."

The changed version appears to make the Labyrinth Group's leader Fifteen a much more respected person, while the originals seriously question his intentions.

Original interview:

Dr. Anderson: "It was a pure grade titanium-beryllium composite, which, as you may know, is extremely rare."

Changed interview:

Dr. Neruda: "It was a pure grade composite of unknown origin."

Could it be that someone wanted to hide the composition of the material mentioned at this point in the interviews? Why else would they delete it on making changes? More detail generally makes for a better story.

Original version:

"After the initial discovery of the Ancient Arrow site, all of the physical artifacts that could be removed from the site were carefully packed in shipping crates and shipped to the ACIO research lab in Virginia, and are held by the Labyrinth Group in its own laboratory."

Yet in the changed version here and in another section, the location of the ACIO research lab is changed from Virginia to Southern California. If it's only a modern day myth or additions to the story, why bother with this change? Virginia, for those who don't know, is the hub of a lot of top-secret intelligence activities.

Original interview:

Dr. Anderson: "If you take the WingMakers on face value, in other words, what do they say it is, it's a time capsule that will help facilitate the development of a global culture. They claim that somehow, when all seven of the time capsules are discovered, that they'll serve as a communication bridge between humans of today and their future selves."

Changed version:

Dr. Neruda: "The Ancient Arrow site was labeled initially as an Extraterrestrial Time Capsule, or ETC, however, it is not actually, in my opinion, a time capsule. ... The site is part of a larger structure that's interconnected through some means I don't understand. We know there're seven sites that have been constructed on earth -- presumably in the ninth century. We know that these sites have some defensive purpose, and we know that the sites planners represent themselves are culture bearers, and are most likely representatives from the Central Race."

In the changed version, Dr. Neruda says he believes the ancient arrow site is not a time capsule, whereas in the original, Dr. Anderson talked very openly of this being the case. The changed interviews also focus heavily on the importance of DNA, where the original WingMakers philosophy discuss how genetics is being used by the hierarchy to control us and keep us from finding wisdom within ourselves. In the changed version there is also a heavy emphasis on souls and soul carriers, when this is hardly mentioned in the original.

Final Note

From these changes and lots more, it is apparent that the additions James claims to have made to the original story are much more than just additions. The changes in fact have a very different quality and flavor from the originals. Almost as soon as the website began to change in 2001, I and many others who strongly resonated with the amazing materials on the original website suspected intervention with an agenda.

If the intriguing story of the WingMakers on the original website were true, we would expect the ACIO to do their best to either remove the WingMakers website or distort the information to lead readers back to their own agenda. I strongly suspect that the ACIO did, in fact, put lots of resources into gradually and subtly bringing these empowering materials back in line with their own hierarchical agenda. It is even conceivable that the James, who now claims to have originated all of the WingMakers materials, is the linguist Dr. Anderson, but has now had his memories erased and is back under the control of the ACIO, as he clearly stated might happen.

Yet each one of us must draw our own conclusions. To see the full comparison of changes and explore for yourself, click on the links below.

Interview One:

Interview Two:

For an overview of all changes to the WingMakers website, click here. For more on changes to the interviews, click here. Thanks for your interest in this fascinating and transformative material. I invite you to reach deep inside yourself. You may feel the wisdom of the WingMakers reaching out for you. Open to your own inner guidance as you explore these fascinating matters. Remember that on the deepest levels we are all divine. James, members of the ACIO, and every being is simply playing out their role in the cosmic unfolding of the universe. Let us remember that the deepest transformation happens from the inside out.

With sacred love and very best wishes,
Fred Burks for PEERS and
Former language interpreter for Presidents Bush and Clinton

P.S. For those who are interested, I had a fascinating exchange of emails with the alleged founders of the WingMakers website, Mark Hempel and James. To read this stimulating dialog where I ask questions about some of the points listed above, click here. To read further excellent comments on the interview changes from a thoughtful friend of mine who has taught at several respected universities, click here. And if you resonate strongly with the WingMakers material, you might also enjoy an exciting new website we have created to inspire and empower the planetary transformation team at